Nur Ein VI Round One "Colourblind"

The Weakest Suit · Post by **The Weakest Suit** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:53 am

to me, any line that repeats (or close to it), be it at the end of each verse, or the end of the song, would be considered a chorus.
i guess i consider the chorus as the hook of the song, the part i'll remember and want to sing along to.
so, i guess, try writing a song without a hook, but still make it memorable.
man, that would be hard.

Ross · Post by **Ross** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:58 am

The Weakest Suit wrote:to me, any line that repeats (or close to it), be it at the end of each verse, or the end of the song, would be considered a chorus.
i guess i consider the chorus as the hook of the song, the part i'll remember and want to sing along to.
so, i guess, try writing a song without a hook, but still make it memorable.
man, that would be hard.

As a student of folk music, i would say the repeating line at the end of a verse would not usually qualify as a chorus. It is a standard tool in a folk ballad, one of the common characteristics of which is to have no chorus. I think it would be more properly called a "refrain," and while those terms may be casually interchangeable, i think technically they refer to different functional units.

Now i'll have to do some research and see if i am right about any of that.

Nur Ein!

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:21 am

As with most challenges (including Round 0) ... if you have to explain yourself in the review thread, then you've already lost the battle.

Rabid Garfunkel · Post by **Rabid Garfunkel** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:24 am

Touché!

EmbersOfAutumn · Post by **EmbersOfAutumn** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:37 am

roymond wrote:As with most challenges (including Round 0) ... if you have to explain yourself in the review thread, then you've already lost the battle.

But what if the challenge involved using lyrics based on a discussion on last week's review thread?

frankie big face · Post by **frankie big face** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:44 am

Ross wrote:
The Weakest Suit wrote:to me, any line that repeats (or close to it), be it at the end of each verse, or the end of the song, would be considered a chorus.
i guess i consider the chorus as the hook of the song, the part i'll remember and want to sing along to.
so, i guess, try writing a song without a hook, but still make it memorable.
man, that would be hard.
As a student of folk music, i would say the repeating line at the end of a verse would not usually qualify as a chorus. It is a standard tool in a folk ballad, one of the common characteristics of which is to have no chorus. I think it would be more properly called a "refrain," and while those terms may be casually interchangeable, i think technically they refer to different functional units.

Now i'll have to do some research and see if i am right about any of that.

Nur Ein!

No research necessary--you're right. A refrain is different than a chorus and I am hoping that will be obvious to the judges. A well-known example of a refrain would be:

Like a bridge over troubled water, I will lay me down
Like a bridge over troubled water, I will lay me down

An even better example:

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind

It's a refrain because it is just one line repeated at the end of each verse and is connected to the verses in some way, sort of as a commentary.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:58 am

But This Land Is Your Land really messes it all up, putting the refrain in the chorus as well, and the chorus is set to the exact music as the verse.

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:23 am

I'm just going to do my normal song format, but when I get to the chorus, it'll just be dead air and I'm going to dub in crickets cricketing. intro>verse>crickets>bridge>verse>crickets>lots of crickets>outro

EmbersOfAutumn · Post by **EmbersOfAutumn** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:36 am

Billy's Little Trip wrote:I'm just going to do my normal song format, but when I get to the chorus, it'll just be dead air and I'm going to dub in crickets cricketing. intro>verse>crickets>bridge>verse>crickets>lots of crickets>outro

Or just have somebody with a high pitched voice scream into the microphone:
"AHH! I CAN'T SEE ANY COLORS! OH MY DEAR GOD WHY IS EVERYTHING GRAY! WHO ON EARTH TOOK ALL OF MY COLORS AWAY FROM ME! I'M COMPLETELY COLO(U)RBLIND NOW!! AHHHH!"

where the chorus should be.

Manhattan Glutton · Post by **Manhattan Glutton** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:50 am

Billy's Little Trip wrote:I'm just going to do my normal song format, but when I get to the chorus, it'll just be dead air and I'm going to dub in crickets cricketing. intro>verse>crickets>bridge>verse>crickets>lots of crickets>outro

As long as the crickets don't sing the same melody and lyrics, you should be good.

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:54 am

^ @Embers

Now I really want to do that. *copyrights idea and sends it off to the United States copyright place*

....AHHH, HOW CAN DOGS STAND THIS? ....UGH, EVERYTHING LOOKS LIKE I'M WATCHING A 19 inch ZENITH IN 1950! ...AHHHH!

EmbersOfAutumn · Post by **EmbersOfAutumn** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:00 am

Billy's Little Trip wrote:^ @Embers Now I really want to do that. *copyrights idea and sends it off to the United States copyright place*

....AHHH, HOW CAN DOGS STAND THIS? ....UGH, EVERYTHING LOOKS LIKE I'M WATCHING A 19 inch ZENITH IN 1950! ...AHHHH!

WHAT IS THIS, A TWILIGHT ZONE EPISODE? I CAN'T TELL IF THIS IS POND WATER OR URINE! SON OF A...I JUST GOT A SPLINTER ON THIS PIECE OF WOOD. AM I BLEEDING MOTOR OIL? I CAN'T EVEN TELL THAT I'M HUMAN ANYMORE!

glennny · Post by **glennny** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:11 am

BTW everyone, instrumental songs have choruses too. Even though there are no lyrics, the music usually still has verse, chorus, bridge, and solo sections.

Manhattan Glutton · Post by **Manhattan Glutton** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:44 am

I'm going by the Wikipedia definition, and anyone that disagrees can go edit the article.

Wikipedia: Chorus wrote:The element of the song that repeats at least once both musically and lyrically. It is almost always of greater musical and emotional intensity than the verse. In terms of narrative, the chorus conveys the main message or theme of the song. Normally the most memorable element of the song for listeners, the chorus usually contains the hook. In popular music, the chorus normally follows the verse, but there are notable exceptions.

What I glean from this is that a chorus should have most of these attributes:

Repeat at least once.
Be of greater musical and emotional intensity.
Convey the main message or theme.
Be the most memorable element of the song.
Contain a hook.

So by that definition, any Jack Johnson song is eligible for this contest.

Rabid Garfunkel · Post by **Rabid Garfunkel** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:40 pm

Been kinda quiet this afternoon, so I've got a question...

Round 1: 25 bands, 5 eliminations
Round 2: 20 bands, 4 eliminations

Does that mean in Round 1, with the field at 20 bands already, we all get a push?

Please say no

Billy's Little Trip · Post by **Billy's Little Trip** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:14 am

Ok, I have a firm grip on my round ein song. I "think" I found a good method of driving the song with a good hook without a chorus. I'll REALLY have to polish my pitchy harmonizing this time to make it work. Yikes!

NUR EIN!!!!!!

Ross · Post by **Ross** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:50 am

Also from wikipedia :

In popular music
A pop chorus is not the same as a refrain. A writer on pop-song theory, Davis (1990)[page needed], opines that a refrain musically and lyrically resolves a verse and therefore ends it, whereas a chorus begins a distinctively new music section of at least eight bars. A refrain is often a two line repeated lyrical statement commenting on and/or summarizing the preceding verse, for example:
"Like a bridge over troubled water I will lay me down.
Like a bridge over troubled water I will lay me down"
This contrasts with the chorus of a typical modern pop song, which often consists of more than one line repeated, for example the chorus to Cher's "Believe":
"Do you believe in life after love
I can feel something inside me say
I really don't think you're strong enough, no."

EmbersOfAutumn · Post by **EmbersOfAutumn** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:00 pm

Well, here's some good news to the other competitors--

Good chance I'm going to be eliminated this round.

Set aside 2 hours for recording today--all two hours spent troubleshooting equipment. No closer to having it figured out. Going to have to once again guerrilla record. I had a 6 minute long piano score, but now I'm going to have to record on a keyboard (far less quality, no natural reverb, etc.) and I have one less day to do it in.

I'm keeping the towel in my left hand to throw in, just in case...

dantes · Post by **dantes** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:40 pm

Just try your best, it's not because the recording quality's bad that the song is too.

EmbersOfAutumn · Post by **EmbersOfAutumn** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:30 pm

dantes wrote:Just try your best, it's not because the recording quality's bad that the song is too.

You haven't been around here long, have you?

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:28 pm

Peter Gabriel "Solsbury Hill"

glenra · Post by **glenra** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:42 pm

EmbersOfAutumn wrote:
Billy's Little Trip wrote:I'm just going to do my normal song format, but when I get to the chorus, it'll just be dead air and I'm going to dub in crickets cricketing. intro>verse>crickets>bridge>verse>crickets>lots of crickets>outro
Or just have somebody with a high pitched voice scream into the microphone:
"AHH! I CAN'T SEE ANY COLORS! OH MY DEAR GOD WHY IS EVERYTHING GRAY! WHO ON EARTH TOOK ALL OF MY COLORS AWAY FROM ME! I'M COMPLETELY COLO(U)RBLIND NOW!! AHHHH!"

where the chorus should be.

For full points, make sure the screaming voice is different from that of the singer.

Nur Ein VI Round One "Colourblind"

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