Robert's Rules of Order Don't Apply (policy Of rape Reviews)

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Robert's Rules of Order Don't Apply (policy Of rape Reviews)

Postby Rabid Garfunkel » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:50 pm

See rule #4 (or is it rule #2?) 8LO :wink:
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Postby j$ » Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:00 pm

IMO. Written as I listen. Being extra-tough this week, because the line between tasteless / worthybutdull is a very thin one, and the title deserves good stuff ...

Bjam - nice Baez feel. Shame the vocal isn't louder in the mix though the guitar is played well enough, it just isn'ty interesting enough to support the dominant place in the mix. Or rather I would love to hear this re-balanced, maybe with a little hand percussion here and there. I read the lyric in the archive once over and the meaning didn't jump out at me straight away, so I can only judge it on the tune and the way the words fit it, and on that, I like!
8LO - I find the lyric really annoying, for some reason. Sorry to play the gay man card, but I find songs that use gay actions as a form of detriment slightly offensive (like 'Boy, don't get tired / The limo driver's got dibs on you next" and by extension the rest of the song with all its sucking and fucking). I know that wasn't your intention (or at least assume it was - I have no reason to think otherwise) but it's a bitter side-taste all the same (as it were) ...just a heads up - anyway also creepy not in a good way is 'policy of rape' song over that jazz-funk bit - it's a good song, maybe a lot of music in place of a catchy melody. I mean it's not bad, it's impressive production wise, but I don't feel it. Sorry.
Dan - Yay! Welcome back Dan. Nice drum programming and cello sample - this is slightly sad and bitter in an unreliable narrator in the witness stand feel to it on the main part. The revelation section at the end is unneccassary i think. If this was arranged up as an agular new wave 80s band sound it would be awesome. I like. Really interesting
SECOND LISTEN:Hey Dan, you know I can now totally hear Chicks on Speed doing an electroclash version of this. Just a thought ... this one grows and grows on me
Future Boy (featuring Johnny Cashpoint) - oh wow. Good Cashpoint lyric (i think) saved musically by Future Boy. I hadn't heard this since I turned over the original crappy tracks to Mr Boy on Friday night. That is such good work. I mean really. I should really post the original demo so you can hear how different and how much better this is, maybe at the end of the week. Wow. Thanks!
Jute Gyte - I love you. Obviously one can argue that although your lyrics always have meaning to you, they come across as a little meaningless on first listen, and therefore you are at the same time the worst and the best person to write a song for a title like this. CONTENDER
Seoup T. Gei - Great great music and voice. Really my kind of music there, maybe a little bit 'King of Pain' for my tastes but if it was a bit rougher round the edges it would be perfect. I haven't read the lyric yet but it sounds like a bit of a cop-out to use rape as a metaphor? I know, I know, that's just a personal thing on my part, but hey that's what recviews are, I guess. great music though. CONTENDER.
Puce / SWS - who let Depeche Mode into the building? And then got Linkin Park to kick them out? I would like to read deeper into the cases you quote - do you have any links to hand? No problem if not, I can google. I just wonder these two teenagers - it's a different story if they're 15/14 or 19/12 if you see what I mean ... ummmm, I love your voice, the production is great, but dare I say, slightly pompous? I think this lyric would suit a much more downbeat interpretation musically .. but having said all that, it couldn't be more pompous than me, so what do I know?
Vaginal Cellphones - was your thrash metal guitarist on holiday or something? This is crying out for heavy thonk guitar. not bad production at all, but the singer is just slightly out of tune occasionally and on this sparse track it notices more than it would normally. Also a personal thing - I find deep growly sub-shouting like this not appealing. Just about the right length though. Okay.
Hmmmm a pretty good fight, actually. Nothing there I wouldn't listen to again and a lot lot better than I feared it might be given such a difficult title. I am going to vote for Gyte again or maybe for what Future Boy did to me ;) in the vain hope that Puce / SWS and 8LO will cancel each other out in the voting allowing an outsider to traipse through and limp over the finish line ...

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Postby jack » Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:07 pm

yo future cashpoint, that's some good shit yo. :!:
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Postby Future Boy » Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:37 pm

Hey I'll bite on reviews, why not.

Bjam --- The vox is too quiet. You manage to get lots of expression out of the guitar what with the gentle/violent strumming you are using. Interesting take on the title. Why is rape as payback to a swaggering male more acceptable than raping a woman?

8LO --- Holy fuck that is loud. Lots of awesome music and production going on. The lyric is so-so, I'm not as bothered as J$ because I'm not gay, I think. Don't really have any suggestions for improvement.

His Name Is Dan --- Doesn't grab me too much. I think it is the vocal delivery. I like the arrangement OK, though.

J$ & Me --- I like how it turned out.

Jute Gyte --- More glitch please! The change around 1:15 is really really awesome. It is nice to have that much contrast in a song of yours.

Seoup T. Gei --- Not as satisfying on the second listen. Perhaps my experience is being colored by J$'s comments. But, ya, it's just a jam tune with a sortof melody. And the lyrics are all that good.

SWS&P --- More obnoxiously high levels. Choral "Ahs" + Tight distored guitar == CHEESY. Seriously, this song is really cheesy. A interesting topic to address, but this song is more about what it sounds like than what Puce is singing about.

Vaginal Cell Phones --- Um. I don't know what to say about this. I don't really like it.

It would seem that I've got to pick between 8LO and the J$/FB song.
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Postby j$ » Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:19 pm

Future Boy wrote:8LO --- The lyric is so-so, I'm not as bothered as J$ because I'm not gay, I think.


It's probably not a gay thing, just a me thing. *shrug*

Perhaps my experience is being colored by J$'s comments.


What did I do this time? :) Oh man, I just gave a comment - it's not like i have access to the perpetual fountain of rightness, or anything!
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Postby jute gyte » Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:37 pm

lyrics for my song are up, if anyone wants to know what i'm saying.
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Postby Seoup Gei » Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:48 pm

j$ wrote:Seoup T. Gei ...I haven't read the lyric yet but it sounds like a bit of a cop-out to use rape as a metaphor?...

Aww, there are many kinds of rape besides sexual (and most obvious) rape. My song is about insurance policies, mortgages, lawyers fees, unexpected contractual financial surprises. A policy of rape! Financially raped!
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Postby j$ » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:08 pm

Yeah, but only figuratively/metaphorically speaking ... like i said, it's a me thing, and I liked the music a lot (albeit a little bit too much late era Police for me), I am not after your soul or anything, I just said it like I felt it ...

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Re: Robert's Rules of Order Don't Apply (policy Of rape Revi

Postby EightLeggedOedipus » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:01 pm

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:See rule #4 (or is it rule #2?) 8LO :wink:

FAQ wrote:To maximize Song Fight's resources for everyone who wants to participate, please limit your entries to one song per week.


"your" is not a particularly clear pronoun - I personally make a clear distinction between a group and an individual. Just because I help someone out by singing on their track shoudln't disqulaify the entry IMO.

Gay Soup wrote:Aww, there are many kinds of rape besides sexual
Yeah, I took this route, too. I was thinking of the music industry, and in the last verse particularly the problem of Self's <a href="http://www.selfies.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=29&t=5682&s=2a6cdd8f12a8f14601999ba136ef037f">Ornament and Crime</a>.
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Postby Rabid Garfunkel » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:18 pm

EightLeggedOedipus wrote:"your" is not a particularly clear pronoun - I personally make a clear distinction between a group and an individual. Just because I help someone out by singing on their track shoudln't disqulaify the entry IMO.

Actually, I was poking fun at our headbuttings from last week's fight (the capitalization inconsistency in the thread title).

The "rule #2 (or 4?)" is a reference to the dumbrella days, lit. "Suck it" with a :wink: thrown in to defuse any possible misunderstanding/hurt feelings/whatever.

Don't have a problem with your being on multiple songs in multiple fights, you're a solid enough producer/performer and your work sounds like you put in the sweat to make each track/each part that you performed be the best it can.

So kisses, hugs, and whatever, yo.
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Postby EightLeggedOedipus » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:39 pm

<b>Bjam</b>
--- Chords seem derivative. I don't like chorus lyrics are phrased, especially since the "you" is dropped in "taken you by surprise." ---
+++ I really liek the message, though. Your singing is pretty good +++
/// I'd like to hear this over a more produced instrumentation ///

<b>Eight Legged Oedipus</b>
+++ I really enjoyed this melody/chord structure in the verse. +++
--- The chorus is made out of samples, and never quite gelled right. ---
/// I really struggled to find the right sounds and went with three different versions of the verse, none of which work particularly well. The dynamic is wrong altogether. ///
+++ I love starting with the syncopated part as the intro. See Prodigy "Experience" +++

<b>His Name is Dan</b>
+++ I like the beat, and the strum pattern +++
--- You sound like a dork ---

<b>Johnny Cashpoint feat. Future Boy</b>
/// I can't help but point out how noticeable that J$ guitar solo is! What a style... ///
+++ Awesome chorus beat. +++
--- The thing triips a little too much in a lot of places. ---
+++ Oh, yeah. Trading vocal lines. +++

<b>Jute Gyte</b>
+++ I think I need to go back andcheck out your older stuff. This interesting, better than hardcore. Oh god, and that little fucked up lullaby part in the middle. Fantomas much? +++

<b>Seoup T. Gei</b>
+++ Funk out! Rimshots. Breakdown at 2:00+++
/// I don't like the Police, but I like this. Thank you for not being Sting. ///

<b>Southwest Statistic & Puce</b>
+++ Moody production. +++
/// Your vocals are VERY well done. Unfortunately, I like them rare. It's kind of peemo (Pop punk emo) ///
+++ I didn't catch it before, but that noodly delayed guitar is pretty cool. +++

<b>Vaginal Cell Phones</b>
--- Aww, honey, you shouldn't have. Waste of a beat ---

I think I'll vote for myself because I'm an arrogant prick. Runner up Jute Gyte.
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Postby j$ » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:46 pm

Smalltown mike was writing in another review thread about not entering a song using rape figuratively /metaphorically into this fight and said

" I decided it would be in bad taste to take such a horrific happening and change the meaning."

And in an nutshell that was my take on it when it came to reviewing. Of course there are figurative interpretations of any title, every other week I would have applauded the interesting take - I just think with this title, I personally didn't want people to 'shy away' from the issue.

Now this is not a dig at 8LO and Seoup Gei, who both produced good songs, but I just wanted to explain why I called people out on it in reviews.

OK, sorry about the interruption. Please continue! :)

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Postby HansGruber » Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:12 pm

Full reviews pending. Had to give quick props to Johnny and F-boy - Holy crap. Super-cool...The crazed englishman rant at about 2:00 is righteous.
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Postby fodroy » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:02 pm

i suck at reviewing.

bjam - this is a well written song. i kept going back and forth between liking and disliking the guitar, the way that it goes between violent and normal strumming. that's the only thing i'm not entirely sure about. but i did enjoy it, so that's good.

eight legged oedipus - that instrument sound (whatever it is) is really cool. as is the beat. there's a lot of really cool stuff going on in this song.

his name is dan - it is i. i think it's an ok song. it's no "martians are going to eat us" but whatever. :roll:

j$ and future boy - this is pretty sweet. the lyrics seem really preachy, which i'm never really a fan of, but you seem to pull it off with it being too annoying. the music is great. i like the melody a lot. and the production values are great.

jute gyte - ah, jute gyte. i never know what you're saying. even when i read your lyrics i have no idea what's going on. but still, great stuff. i recommended your music to all of my metalhead friends at school. the breakdown here is great. your guitar also seems a lot more clean and well-produced than in the past. good stuff.

seoup t. gei - the song's not bad, but it doesn't really grab me. it's well produced though...and that's the most important thing here.

southwest statistic and puce - the back story is really interesting, not to mention sad. it's a very good song though. it sounds really mainstream for some reason. it might be the production (which must be sws new studio).

vagina cell phones - eh. this is kind of annoying. it's way too underproduced to be hardcore. and you don't sound like you're really getting into the screaming. it sounds fake for some reason. like the piano. i just have a thing against fake piano.

i'll probably vote for j$ and future boy.
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Postby fodroy » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:20 pm

j$ wrote:cello sample

that's not a sample. i just recorded the keyboard through the mic built in to the ibook. the keyboard was on the violin setting. i don't think that i've ever used string sounds of any kind, so i wanted to do something different.

Future Boy wrote:His Name Is Dan --- Doesn't grab me too much. I think it is the vocal delivery.

yeah, i know. i suck at singing.

eight legged oedipus wrote: --- You sound like a dork ---

i know, i know. some things you just can't hide.
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Postby Rabid Garfunkel » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:50 pm

So very dead at work tonight, so here's some reviews for a title I couldn't write a sincere, thoughtful song for, as much as I'd wanted to. Listening and writing to the music with the lyrics (when available) onscreen.

Bjam
Can guitars cry? You're (or your guitarist is) pounding the holy hell out of those strings. And yet, following along in the lyrics, I want to read something into that strumming behavior. Choruses are a little crammed, syllabically, and you and the guitar could do with trading places in the recording position/mix. One mike? Yay, revenge songs!

Eight Legged Oedipus
Sonically clean, structurally disjointed. Each verse seems to be its own mini song, rather than a portion of the whole with cohesiveness, progression, movement and all that story-type stuff. See also, Talking Heads' "Television Man".

His Name is Dan
Vox are sort of Lou Reed nasal, without the strength of his lungs under them. More air, man! More air!

Johnny Cashpoint feat. Future Boy
Educational! Counterpoints & lyrical contrast in verse! The 16th note-ish delay/whatever in the low frequencies that's going chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga is drowning out j$'s vox in the mix, to my ear.

Jute Gyte
Whee! Sweet. Aside from the trippy-bridge, the beat & rhythms are fairly lock-step, without contrasts to accentuate the beating you're giving us (though I'll be lining up for a paddling again and again, regardless). Very tight playing.

Seoup T. Gei
Damn. This is a nice funky groove. Enigma Finger should be a band name. Nice flow. Nice tone. Probable vote.

Southwest Statistic & Puce
Another educational song! Sweet chorus voice on the keyboard. Another tight track, performance-wise. Good shit, yo. (Though it does remind me, for some reason, of Duran Duran's "Save A Prayer (for the Morning After)" song. Progression? Dunno.)

Vaginal Cell Phones
Why hide your vox behind voices? That screamo stuff should really be hotter than the sweet chorusy tones the other vox have. Varying dynamics would bring out the contrasts the two vocal & bassy tones imply, IMO.

Torn between Seoup and SS&P at this point.
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Postby HansGruber » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:08 pm

8LO - Really really great choice for the opening verse. I love the minimalism the arpeggiated synth, breaking bass thumpity thump-thump. Mad use of space. I feel it loses a little momentum at the chorus ('I'm so sorry..') Is that what you mean by 'never quite gelled right"? I think mebbe you lost some intensity by drifting into downtempoville. But that's me - I'm a complete sucker for the groove. Also, those Rhodes chords are dithered out. Please don't distort the Rhodes - it's a holy tone. Otherwise, it's totally kick-ass.

Seoup - I went to Jamaica in October and had reggae burned into my medulla. The Hammond is so cool, man. As mentioned above, I'm a sucker for the groove - which makes me a sucker for this as well. Perhaps a sucker in general. The first time I had a listen, I didn't think of The Police - and I do like them. But now that some have mentioned it...I still don't really hear it. Call me crazy. I mean I do; you know, it's rock-reggae, and you bust a few Sting-ish harmonies, but he don't own that shit...Its got me rocking around in my desk chair, so it's good.

His Name is Dan - Riverside reprazent. Cool violins. Why does this remind me of Trans-am?

Jute Gyte - Fuck yes. Usually I go for subtlety, but maybe it's the crack I've been smoking tonight, because this is carressing me softly. I love the robo-drum fills. Kooky. I'm going to trust that you're singing appropriate lyrics which have something to do with "The Policy of Rape" cause I can't make anything out but.

Bjam - So thin, I'm having trouble hearing it. The vox phrasing in what sounds like the chorus is really cool. Otherwise, it's not holding my attention. I think a better mix would change that; I hate being a stickler on production, but sometimes it makes a difference.

Vaginalcellphone - I see you've been hitting the crackpipe as well! Great!

SW Static & Puce - Whoa..major drama going on here...Amazing production value, maybe too much? The vox are a little forced "SOME of them"...it'd be better without that growly inflection. Otherwise, massively impressive..I rilly like the frilly arpeg. guitar chords.

Cashboy & Futurepoint - I already dribbled my praise above. It's an inspired collab. God, that freaking bridge is great...The dualing parts are cool: your voices are complimentary. The overall tone works really well with the lyrics. It...just..works..so..well...you get my hanging chad.
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Postby jack » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:12 pm

HansGruber wrote:Cashboy & Futurepoint - I already dribbled my praise above. It's an inspired collab. God, that freaking bridge is great...The dualing parts are cool: your voices are complimentary. The overall tone works really well with the lyrics. It...just..works..so..well...you get my hanging chad.


i could not put it better myself. word. great collab. and great bridge angst johnny!
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Postby HansGruber » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:12 pm

fodroy wrote:i just recorded the keyboard through the mic built in to the ibook. the keyboard was on the violin setting.

Cool. I've done a few of those myself - ar you using Garageband?
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Postby Future Boy » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:27 pm

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:Johnny Cashpoint feat. Future Boy
Educational! Counterpoints & lyrical contrast in verse! The 16th note-ish delay/whatever in the low frequencies that's going chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga is drowning out j$'s vox in the mix, to my ear.


If you are talking about the line "it's a small world after all" in the chorus, I think I probably agree with you. I might have decided that it was better for the music to be overwhelming at that point instead of the lyric being crystal clear.
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Postby EightLeggedOedipus » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:57 pm

HansGruber wrote:Please don't distort the Rhodes - it's a holy tone. Otherwise, it's totally kick-ass.


I [wish it was rhodes. No, sir, this is your standard MIDI Piano through an amp modeler. While it may be a crappy distortion algorithm, the instrument sounds fuckign weak without soem kind of effect.
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Postby fodroy » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:08 pm

HansGruber wrote:
fodroy wrote:i just recorded the keyboard through the mic built in to the ibook. the keyboard was on the violin setting.

Cool. I've done a few of those myself - ar you using Garageband?

yeah, but don't worry. i'm not using any of the pre-made loops that they have loaded.
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