Bono in NYTimes Mag

[roymond]

Perhaps you all read this, now with some follow-up Q/A:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/18/magaz ... nted=print

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/21/reade ... nted=print

[Kamakura]

That's a long article (a precis would be nice), though there is no doubting Bono is a great human being.

To be brutal: with the news today about the Arctic
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4290340.stm
it hardly matters how many do or don't die of aids/malaria/whatever. The whole damned planet is doomed, and surely the survival of the planet and mankind as a species is a more important topic to focus on?

<excerpt>
"...The evidence is growing very, very strong that part of what we're seeing now is the increased greenhouse effect. If you asked me, I'd bet the mortgage that that's just what's happening."
</excerpt>

[mico saudad]

Absolutely spectacular article. It shows off exactly how intelligent and empathetic Bono is in how he approaches people and situations. He is the perfect salesman (and the fact that he's selling a good product helps).

As far as his interaction with the Bush administration, I'm the first guy to want to get those pricks out of office, but from where Bono stands it's great lesson to learn from him:

If you're fighting for a noble goal, you gain nothing by alienating those in power to help you, and you have everything to gain by allowing those individuals to bathe with you in the warmth of grace that can come from having compassion for others and making a difference in the world.

[mico saudad]

it hardly matters how many do or don't die of aids/malaria/whatever. The whole damned planet is doomed, and surely the survival of the planet and mankind as a species is a more important topic to focus on?

If your boat has a hole in it and you're waiting for a rescue boat that may or may not come, don't you still try to take care of sick passengers to the best of your ability until the rescue boat gets there (or you all die waiting)?

As a side note, I think also that having so many people with so many different priorities actually makes us stronger. Instead of focusing solely on sustainability, our innate predelictions naturally distribute our collected mental resources across all sort of issues so that no problem typically becomes too much of one.

As far as ranking emergencies, I think objectively Africa is in an emergency right now that is far more immediate and politically tractable than global warming. There is no way that the Bush administration is going to do crap about global warming. It's too tied to their politcial finances and not tied enough to Biblical directive:

Also while I'm terrified of the way we're abusing the environment, and our apparent inability to really get anything done about it, but it's hard to say that the planet is doomed. Life as extremely adaptable (and humans are moreso adaptive because our adaptation works at the speed of the selection of ideas and not at the much slower speed of genetic selection). That isn't to say that life will always be as it is now, but that's probably unavoidable given our current obscene overextensions.

But the real problem is that people don't tend to fix huge problems until they become disasters. Humans are really good at the "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" approach to collective learning. Those solutions work fine for most disasters, but the real danger is an environmental catastrophe that may be " fool me once..... (static)"

[Kamakura]

it hardly matters how many do or don't die of aids/malaria/whatever. The whole damned planet is doomed, and surely the survival of the planet and mankind as a species is a more important topic to focus on?

If your boat has a hole in it and you're waiting for a rescue boat that may or may not come, don't you still try to take care of sick passengers to the best of your ability until the rescue boat gets there (or you all die waiting)?

I'm not convinced that's a good analogy unless you believe in alien intervention or stargates.
The point is that we have to build the damn rescue boat.

As far as ranking emergencies, I think objectively Africa is in an emergency right now that is far more immediate and politically tractable than global warming.

I'm not suprised you say this though I think you're wrong.
From a political standpoint and shear column inches Africa is a sure fire bet. It's chic. However in the long run it's like pissing in the wind.
Aids is endemic in Africa. You can't stop people having sex, which in turn creates a steadily growing population in a poverty sticken environment rife with unstoppable tribal conflict... It can't get better, unless it's a never ending aid program or you try and impose western mores on people who don't want to know... Iraq, Vietnam, Korea etc etc etc

Dying of starvation is distressing but it's a relatively personal tragedy. Global genocide through inaction isn't. It's just damn stupid.

It's hard to say that the planet is doomed. Life as extremely adaptable

It's easy to get used to having your cities trashed by hurricanes?

The real problem is that people don't tend to fix huge problems until they become disasters.

It already is a disaster. It can only get worse.

Anyway, all that aside, Bono is doing an amazing job. Good voice too.

[Mogosagatai]

It's easy to get used to having your cities trashed by hurricanes?

In the long run, yes. "Easy" is kind of a strong word, but you could say that the population of New Orleans, as a whole, adapted very swiftly.

[mico saudad]

Global genocide through inaction ..[is]..just damn stupid.

I couldn't agree more. And I think we only disagree on a subtle point, where you and I (and many others) see this impending tragedy and we see someone like Bono with this great charisma for change in Africa, but there's no one speaking out for this potentially more global problem that you and I fear.

But actually my view of the damage that global climate change is going to cause is basically like a combination of Katrina and Africa and the Asian tsunami rolled into one and slow cooked evenly.

Natural disasters, cities abandoned, disease, mass death and personal tragedy - followed by rising out of the ashes. Whether or not we do anything to prevent the ashes in the first place is a choice that someone has to convince others to make, and I agree with you that I wish we had someone like Bono shaking the trees to help prevent it.

[Future Boy]

The devil in me thinks we deserve (and maybe secretly want) to go up in flames.

[roymond]

Aids is endemic in Africa. You can't stop people having sex, which in turn creates a steadily growing population in a poverty sticken environment rife with unstoppable tribal conflict... It can't get better, unless it's a never ending aid program or you try and impose western mores on people who don't want to know... Iraq, Vietnam, Korea etc etc etc

Dying of starvation is distressing but it's a relatively personal tragedy. Global genocide through inaction isn't. It's just damn stupid.

Flash back to Ronald Regan and the Catholic church, among others, when there was an early warning of things to come and an opportunity to make a difference at a critical point. Both chose to not just ignore it, but label it as a sinner's fate. Two VERY powerful and capable identities helped facilitate a fast growing genocide. It is an opportune moment to try at any time.

"It can't get better" is a cop-out. What folks are doing is getting some wheels turning and building on what's been done in the past. You do what you can when you can do it. In this case it's a huge heep of resources that need to be coordinated. Does that mean that you don't try to provide one teacher at one clinic the minimal material she needs in order to spread some awareness? If this prevents one infected male from having unprotected relations with his dead brothers' uninfected widow, then that's a win.

[Kamakura]

"It can't get better" is a cop-out.

Possibly, though I think it's just pragmatism.

We are all continually media fed doomsday senarios, be it the threat of terrorism, or AIDS, or the latest beauty: Avian Flu. We try to do what we can, some by giving to charity, others by giving of themselves. Yet the bottom line is we've fucked our planet in a major way and it's getting too damn late to do anything about it.

We're born, we live, some make music, we die. End of story.
Have fun while it lasts!

The devil in me thinks we deserve (and maybe secretly want) to go up in flames.

Future Boy might well be right.

PS I'm really not the depressing fart I might sound... Honest!

[roymond]

I attended this lecture last night at NYU by Jeffrey Sachs, and was humored
by Bono during his very elequent introduction of Dr Sachs. I will look for a
transcription of his presentation, which highlights how the first world
can and should make enormous investments in African life.

Plus, I met the Edge!

http://www.nyunews.com/news/city/9946.html
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stori ... 960&EDATE=

If you haven't read Sachs, I highly recommend him. He is very real, and
bases his theories on ordinary, observable situations and truths. He makes
these sorts of missions both urgent and do-able.

[mico saudad]

Very cool Roymond!