Middle Earth, Sauron and Trolling

[Fried]

What exactly is concidered trolling here? This is what I understand trolling to be is "someone who posts inflamitory messages for no other reason than to get a negative reaction. I found this, this says it better.http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
Many of the people that point and scream "Troll" seem to fit into that definition themselves. I have been branded a Troll many times for trying to express an unpopular viewpoint and then defend it. This is usually done by someone who jumps into a thread they were not previously a part of, to critize a personal viewpoint or the way it is presented. If that is not Trolling, what is?

[erik]

I have been branded a Troll many times for trying to express an unpopular viewpoint and then defend it.

This is not true. Unpopular opinions do not make someone a troll. Rhetorical remarks designed to get people upset is generally seen as troll behavior. Refusing to acknowledge or answer questions put to you is seen as troll behavior. Wildly misrepresenting what other people have said is generally seen as troll behavior.

This is usually done by someone who jumps into a thread they were not previously a part of, to critize a personal viewpoint or the way it is presented. If that is not Trolling, what is?

Every single person, with the exception of the person who started the thread, is entering a thread that they were not previously a part of when they make their first post to the thread. Disagreeing with someone else's viewpoint does not make one a troll. That is not trolling.

If the way in which the opinion is expressed is similar to what I've already outlined above, THAT is generally seen as trolling.

[Fried]

Speak of the devil. I could play you and comment per line instead of trying to respond to a message as a statement, but then I would be trolling also. What did you have to offer in that last post? What were your intentions? I don't believe my statement asked for a personal critque, but there you are, quick to incite. How is that not trolling?

[jack]

if your label says "admin", you can troll wherever the hell you want to.

and fried, i like you, but you started this thread, asking for opinion, and now it seems as if you are trying to incite others to argue. how is that not troll like behavior?

[Leaf]

Speak of the devil. I could play you and comment per line instead of trying to respond to a message as a statement, but then I would be trolling also. What did you have to offer in that last post? What were your intentions? I don't believe my statement asked for a personal critque, but there you are, quick to incite. How is that not trolling?

The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.





You so deserved that Fried!!

I read that site...it's well written, and informative. I suppose I'm second on your list of potential responders? No matter, I 've had discussions with you, we've pm'ed each other, I know you're not a troll by design or on purpose, but if you play mind games online, and don't give others the respect of responding to the conversation, of course you're gonna be viewed as a troll. The way to stop this is not by complaining about it, but by changing your behaviour. And if you truely are not a "troll", you will change your behaviour. Do people the courtesy of responding, or backing down, or admiting you're wrong, or structuring your arguement with facts to back up your points. I seem to recall this is all that was asked of you, and yet you threw out some red herrings and ...well, man, kinda whined about it.

Stiff uppperlip and all that.

[Leaf]

Shit. I'm third.

[Fried]

I guess I just don't see people differing on an opinion as trolling. Many prople here do troll as I see it and are not called on it. And yes, if you are admin, you can do what ever you want.
I started this thread to try to understand how behavior I don't see as trolling is getting labled as such and by people I feel are trolling me. This was not meant as an argument. Just a "what does trolling mean to you " thread. 15-16 brought this quickly away from a discussion on that and made it personal and inflamed.
My openning statement asked a question and tried to give my reason for asking. This current direction is a gleaming example of what I was trying to understand. This was not a "Why am I called a troll" topic. of course it is quickly becoming one.

[jack]

I guess I just don't see people differing on an opinion as trolling. Many prople here do troll as I see it and are not called on it. And yes, if you are admin, you can do what ever you want.
I started this thread to try to understand how behavior I don't see as trolling is getting labled as such and by people I feel are trolling me. This was not meant as an argument. Just a "what does trolling mean to you " thread. 15-16 brought this quickly away from a discussion on that and made it personal and inflamed.
My openning statement asked a question and tried to give my reason for asking. This current direction is a gleaming example of what I was trying to understand. This was not a "Why am I called a troll" topic. of course it is quickly becoming one.

well, i think you made it personal (and less of a discussion) when you brought your own experience into play. if you had left that out, maybe the discussion would have remained less personal and more on point.

[Fried]

I guess I just don't see people differing on an opinion as trolling. Many prople here do troll as I see it and are not called on it. And yes, if you are admin, you can do what ever you want.
I started this thread to try to understand how behavior I don't see as trolling is getting labled as such and by people I feel are trolling me. This was not meant as an argument. Just a "what does trolling mean to you " thread. 15-16 brought this quickly away from a discussion on that and made it personal and inflamed.
My openning statement asked a question and tried to give my reason for asking. This current direction is a gleaming example of what I was trying to understand. This was not a "Why am I called a troll" topic. of course it is quickly becoming one.

well, i think you made it personal (and less of a discussion) when you brought your own experience into play. if you had left that out, maybe the discussion would have remained less personal and more on point.

touche'
so can we ignore the personal stuff and get back to the reason I wanted to start this thread(and I don't mean for an argument) 8)

[erik]

Speak of the devil. I could play you and comment per line instead of trying to respond to a message as a statement, but then I would be trolling also. What did you have to offer in that last post? What were your intentions? I don't believe my statement asked for a personal critque, but there you are, quick to incite. How is that not trolling?

What I had to offer was an explanation on trolling. If you do not like my definition, that's cool. If you think I was talking specifically about you, or specifically about things you have said, you are mistaken. I was offering a general definition, because your OP seemed to suggest that you honestly didn't understand the concept of trolling.

I'm not trying to play you in any way. If the intent of your post was to say that you are not a troll, then you shouldn't rhetorically ask "What is trolling?", because someone will probably try to answer that question.

[jack]

isn't trolling when you are riding along in a fishing boat with your line out?

[erik]

so can we ignore the personal stuff and get back to the reason I wanted to start this thread(and I don't mean for an argument) 8)

Perhaps if you said again why you started this thread. I thought you were looking for a definition of "trolling", but if you would like to have the discussion be about something else, restating what you want the discussion to be about might better focus the conversation.

[Leaf]

I don't always agree with Erik's opinion, and I find his style occasionally abrasive. Yeah, that's a shot.
So what.
I know that if we get into it, he's proven that he's gonna at least express his opinion in his style, and RESPOND. That is what pissed everyone off D. You kept spouting rhetoric, and twisting away from the converstation. No points. No facts. That was it.

As far as getting personal goes, dude, you STARTED it!!! Erik answered your questions, and I don't see how he "incited" or trolled you. He answered exactly what you asked. You are the one inferring personal, and frankly, I'm calling you on it. Now, if you give a shit about my opinion, pm me. I'm cool with that. If you feel all bad at the SF community, fix it. Pm Jb, and work towards some mutal understanding. But don't waste anyone else's time by trying to subversively defend yourself. It isn't working. Sometimes, we're just wrong. So fix it by figuring out what you did to piss JB off, the one who called you a troll. Ok, I THINK I'm done here...


and I can't fucking stand that stupid fucking "Isearch". ...random diversion.

[Leaf]

isn't trolling when you are riding along in a fishing boat with your line out?

no...it's driving down the strip with a flap of cocaine on a string pulled behind your convertible.

Hick.



Damn... I'm just thinking to much about my posts in this thread.. I write something and it's obsolete before I hit submit!!


...I feel like Generic! (Yeah, that's a shot too dude!!)

[jack]

ok, as far as MY definition goes, a troll is someone who is usually apathetic about the board or community they are bothering (but not apathetic about bothering them), doesn't really contribute anything of positive value to the thread, discussion, or community at large, and doesn't seem interested in anything but their own self interest. there are a few folks around these parts that have been labeled trolls, that i don't think fit that description. conversely, there are others i consider that never get called for it.

what difference does it really make. there's no universal-agreed-upon-protocol for "troll". it's like saying "what's good music?". it's just opinion and conjecture. it's just a word. replace it with Dick.

[Me$$iah]

Before I read this thread I really thought that trolling was somthing that
happend under bridges with billy goats and stuff

But cool live and learn I say

[Fried]

Before I read this thread I really thought that trolling was somthing that
happend under bridges with billy goats and stuff

But cool live and learn I say

Before I found this site, I never heard the term either.

[Hoblit]

well, let me be the first to welcome you to the internet you two

[j$]

I had a dream once where all trolls were in fact sub-adjuncts of a mighty Troll Collective being, spinning off and vainly trying to assimilate other cultures for no other reason than they could. Kind of like The Crap Borg.

I seem to remember I had good hair in that dream ....

[Poor June]

isn't trolling when you are riding along in a fishing boat with your line out?

in this case i have trolled quite a bit...


but nah my own view of trolling... is someone that intentionally sets out to annoy everyone... and obviously does it... if it's not intentional... then i personally overlook it... cause i just don't care enough...

[Mostess]

Fried, I know you don't think you were asking for personal critiques, but you actually did. Trust me, I'm a psychologist. (wink) From my perspective, your defensive tone is inciting anger. I'm not in the know enough to define "troll", but I know when a poster is not worth responding to. Your posts are practically picking a fight:

What exactly is concidered trolling here? [...] I have been branded a Troll many times for trying to express an unpopular viewpoint and then defend it.

I don't believe my statement asked for a personal critque, but there you are, quick to incite. How is that not trolling?

This was not a "Why am I called a troll" topic. of course it is quickly becoming one.

To me, your first post reads almost exactly like a "what am I doing wrong?" question. And your next post reads like a "I'm not a troll---you are!" And your next post reads like a "I didn't start it; why you all are against me!??!"

In my mind, "trolls" don't think about how people will react when they write their post, but then get (or just act) very upset when the reactions start rolling in. If you had put "This isn't a call for personal critiques" in your first post, you'd sound like you were inviting a more civil discussion. If you had put "Sorry 15-16, I didn't mean to come off as defending myself---I just want to know what people think defines a troll" in your next post, you would sound like you understood that your responders have feelings, too. And you would have gotten the discussion back on track.

For the record, I'm aware this may make you mad, but I'm trying to be constructive and nice and give you a sense of what I think you're missing.

[Fried]

Jack Shite actually answered my question to the fullest. And Mostess, I don't sweat the small stuff and everything is small stuff. I figure trolling is like screaming/honking and flipping off a poor driver. Then you pull up next to them and it is your grandmother. It is easy to say crap to an internet persona, especially stuff they would get bitch slapped for saying in person. hmmmm.... /me thinks back at Silent Bob and Jay doing it. That is what is so great about SF live. You get to personalize an internet handle. Just like, I know Jason(bolio), he played in my band. If I say something negative to him, he can drive to my house and throw eggs at me... heh. Damn, I have to go back to work.
Before I go..
1) I know I am not a troll
2) I believe the term is over used
3) There are people, here as is everywhere, that just don't want to get along.
4) I better enter a fight pretty soon.
5) My boss is getting pissed and is yelling louder
6) I need a raise.