Are We There Yet? (Three-Day Waiting Period Reviews)

[ken]

Not much longer now.

[Adam!]

Explino!!!!

The last time I got to yell out that band name was in Seattle. Now co-workers think I'm a tad odd.

[joshw]

Scoring Key: (Production, Performance, Song)

Andre (7, 6, 6)

Either I'm missing the beat, or you are. If it's me, you need
percussion or something to better define the beat. Some of the raw
elements like the guitar work are good, but as a whole this is really
chaotic and random.

Bob McRae (6, 7, 7)

Hey, I'm the only one allowed to use a mandolin in this fight! No
fair! It's cool, though, it adds a lot. Too much reverb all around,
and the reverb seems to be in mono, which is The Bad. Nice guitar solo
(and I'm not usually a guitar solo fan). It's tasteful. Something
about the vocal delivery isn't giving me warm fuzzies, but it's not
bad. The chorus repetition at the end seems a little much. The
intensity remains the same, and it needs to ramp up to add excitement.

Calfborg (8, 7, 7)

The first intro thing was odd. Not sure if I liked it or
not. Interesting during the second intro. The filtered part when the
vocals come in is warped and kinda cool. I didn't understand a single
word in the verse. :) You're definitely getting unique points, but
it's not something I'd replay very often. Very effective production.

C Hack (8, 8, 8)

You need to soundproof your studio. ;) Nice singing and guitar
work. Love the lyrics. The music is boring, but the lyrics are
carrying this. Heh.. "that's fine" was great. It feels like this
needed a little extra something. Another part or something. But still,
very well done and possible vote.

Charcoal (6, 6, 6)

The intro isn't hooking me. The guitar tone is very direct-in and
needs an amp emulator or something. By the two minute mark I'm getting
bored. I think it's the droning quality of the music. The lyrics are
fairly interesting, but that's the only thing that's grabbing me. The
lackluster delivery kinda hurts that, though. Goes on kinda long.

Dentron (6, 6, 5)

The background music is cheesy. The rapping is average at best.

Freddielove (7, 8, 8)

Some great melodies in this. The overall feel is a little odd. THe
intstrumental melody at 1:30 is nifty. The strings are nice. The
production seems a little dark. I guess that matches the tone of the
song, but it could use a little more brightness. Nice, though.

Josh Woodward (me)

Speaking of dark. :) Production Notes

The C Hackster gets my vote.

[Jim of Seattle]

<font color=blue>THE HALLOWED ENCLAVE OF GOODNESS</FONT>

Explino!
Catchy, fun power-pop. Has a nice talented-garage-band feel to it, and I love the key change going into the impressive solo. I would have processed the vocals a little bit, but who cares, really. Is this a songfight debut? Nice job.

Freddielove
Ooh, how Jobim. I'm ready to put on "Girl from Ipanema" next. I spent most of the song cringing hoping your could stick with the athletic tune you'd written for yourself, and you managed to pull it off. I love the soft touch, it uses a few synth patches I usually stay away from, but it works.

Josh Woodward
Uh, there's no hook . But seriously, this is very nice, though on the Josh-curve it doesn't rate very high. I don't think you have a clear enough emotional angle here. You've set up some nice atmosphere with your specific lyric imagery and unique arrangement, but I kept waiting to be struck in the chest with something. I came away not really sure what that song was supposed to do for me.

<font color=red>EVERYONE ELSE</font>

Andre Was Here at Midnight
Marcus Kellis-y. Your recording is certainly improved. All your songs do this to me. Starts off with this pretty guitar picking, and then the singing starts and I go "Ak!". I don't know if your disregard for rhythm is intentional or not, but I find it most irritating.

Bob McRae
I'm not crazy about country in the first place, but I was willing to go with it. The problem for me is that it's just real slow and heavy. I can even hear your vocals rushing the tempo a tad like you know it should be faster. This is long and plodding and hard to get through without drifting off.

C Hack
Well, you certainly kept my attention. I guess it's just kind of weird, and not terribly ingenious or anything. Nicely performed, nicely sung, I just don't get why you wrote it.

Calfborg
Very traditional sound for you. Disappointing. The screaming is just screaming to me and doesn't add any scary anger for me because it's mixed so far back. And what's this -- guitar? Is this really Calfborg? Weird. Nah.

Charcoal
I think the problem with this band is that the ever-so-slow style isn't working because you aren't rhythmically tight enough. Bands like Cowboy Junkies or Low or Mazzy Star who specialize in super-slow songs work because they are so crisp. The resulting effect here is more just lethargic than it is dreamy and trance-like. The off-key vocal doesn't help either.

Dentron 3199
Points off for a song about songfight, but I'm looking the other way because it's a clever take on the title. I enjoyed this, but it's not a great song or anything. Sort of amusing, and I can relate to a lot of it.

[GlennCase]

Josh: Got something against Explino there buddy boy?

Did you MEAN to leave us out of your review?

ALSO:

Jim of seattle said:

Explino!
"Catchy, fun power-pop. Has a nice talented-garage-band feel to it, and I love the key change going into the impressive solo. I would have processed the vocals a little bit, but who cares, really. Is this a songfight debut? Nice job."

This IS a songfight debut, and I am glad you liked it.

The cat is out of the bag. Ken + Glenn = Explino!

ROCK!

Glenn (DR FUNK)

[jack]

<font color=blue>THE HALLOWED ENCLAVE OF GOODNESS</FONT>

C Hack
.....Nicely performed, nicely sung, I just don't get why you wrote it.

ouch. why did you even have to include that disclaimer? what purpose does it serve? and do you really think it's that important that YOU get it? i'm sure for you it is but it's not like he's writing it for you.

btw...i do appreciate your consistent reviews jim. maybe sometimes they just come across too stream of consciousness in a bad but not necessarily bad intentioned way.

[joshw]

Josh: Got something against Explino there buddy boy? Did you MEAN to leave us out of your review? :P

Whoops, someone screwed up when the fight first went up and the filename was something.mpg instead of .mp3. So my "xmms *.mp3" didn't pick you up.

Explino (8, 7, 8)

Very cool song. The nasty guitar tone is perfect, and the gating (?) that keeps it popping out is neat. The "waiting for you" could use more vocal energy. Nice solo section, especially the first part. Great drumming. The song itself is fun. I wasn't really paying attention to the lyrics because other stuff was capturing my attention. Probably would have gotten my vote if I hadn't already voted. :)

[DELETED]

DELETED

[Jim of Seattle]

<font color=blue>THE HALLOWED ENCLAVE OF GOODNESS</FONT>

C Hack
.....Nicely performed, nicely sung, I just don't get why you wrote it.

ouch. why did you even have to include that disclaimer? what purpose does it serve? and do you really think it's that important that YOU get it? i'm sure for you it is but it's not like he's writing it for you.

btw...i do appreciate your consistent reviews jim. maybe sometimes they just come across too stream of consciousness in a bad but not necessarily bad intentioned way.

Well, it didn't seem particularly ouchworthy to me. But I've been thinking that I seem to get a disproportionate amount of complaints about my reviews. So I went onto IRC this evening and asked how my reviews are received, and what I heard what not what I have been intending. So apologies to all. I'm going to try to be a lot nicer from now on. Really, I'm a very nice guy and I think you guys are all great.

So, well I'm done reviewing this week, so the new review style will have to start next week. Apologies again to all.

[bz£]

I feel kind of bad, because I usually don't like to do this (for no good reason), but I have exciting follow-up questions!

The guitar tone is very direct-in and needs an amp emulator or something.

Dang, which guitar? I mean, there are four of them and none are direct-in, which is a sound that I usually don't like, so I wonder where I missed.

I think the problem with this band is that the ever-so-slow style isn't working because you aren't rhythmically tight enough. Bands like Cowboy Junkies or Low or Mazzy Star who specialize in super-slow songs work because they are so crisp. The resulting effect here is more just lethargic than it is dreamy and trance-like. The off-key vocal doesn't help either.

Hm, this really makes me think. I want more specifics, because I feel like this review is right on the edge of something really useful, but I'm not sure what question to ask. I mean, Low, for example, is one of my favorites, but I don't think I'd call them "crisp" or "rhythmically tight." (Though I'm not (consciously) trying to sound like them here.) I sort of think of "tight" as the opposite of "sloppy," in this context, and I know this recording has its sloppiness, but a lot of it was intentional and, I think, adds a lot to the overall ambience.

I guess the question is, what would you do differently with my song to make it "work?"

Thanks muchly, gentlemen!

[jack]

<font color=blue>THE HALLOWED ENCLAVE OF GOODNESS</FONT>

..... So apologies to all. I'm going to try to be a lot nicer from now on. Really, I'm a very nice guy and I think you guys are all great.

having met you in person, i can vouch for the fact that you are indeed, a very nice guy. and i wasn't trying to cause some major re-evaluation of how you do reviews jim. i think you write some of the best, most insightful reviews here.

[ken]

Hey All,

You won't have to wait three days for these reviews:

Andre was here at Midnight: Nice start. Not quite together, but still nice. I like how the track builds. Still bothered that it isn't really together. Nice ending. Sounds like you recorded the whole thing late at night.

Bob McCrae: I like the mandolin and voice right away. Excellent harmonies. The drum track leaves a lot to be desired. Next time try to mix it pretty low in the mix. The slap back on the guitar isn't all that pleasant, way too much. You could prolly do without it. Keep at it and tell us more about yourself.

Calfborg: Interesting intro. I can't understand the screamy vocals. Excellent guitar solo. Where did that come from? Not sure what to make of this. Interesting mix of stuff.

c hack: I like the simplicity of the guitar and voice. I think you need to deliver the vocal with less blues and more of a smile in your voice. Like you know it is a joke rather than playing it seriously. (I realize that is totally esoteric and maybe you disagree. I just imagine you playing this at a coffeeshop and having people laughing with the lyrics) Nice.

charcoal: Atmospheric intro is good. Your timing is sloppy, and not in a good way. I really like the atmosphere of this song. I would have a much higher opinion of it if the vocal was better. Good effort.

Dentron3199: Nice songfight themed lyrics. Decent performance. Thanks for keeping it short.

Explino!: Me and Glenn. I really like the way our voices sound together. I think it is actually a little hard to tell us apart in this song. Rhythm guitars came out a little fizzy for my taste. Just a fun rock song.

Freddie Love: Wow, the production on this is really nice. Something very classic about this, like 60's pop ala Enoch Light or something. Wow, just clean this up a bit and you would have a winner.

Josh Woodward: Sounds great as ever. I like how you are actually telling a story with your lyrics. Interesting instrument changes. Very well done.

5. charcoal
4. Bob McCrae
3. c hack
2. Freddie Love
1. Josh Woodward

Be well,
Ken

[c hack]

So I went onto IRC this evening and asked how my reviews are received, and what I heard what not what I have been intending. So apologies to all. I'm going to try to be a lot nicer from now on. Really, I'm a very nice guy and I think you guys are all great.

Fuck the IRC guys and fuck niceness. If I want a nice review, I'll ask my mom. Honesty is what I want out of SF. If I get a glowing review, I always check the other reviews. If all the other reviews are glowing, even ones of songs I think suck, I dismiss the whole review. Sure, you could've elaborated more, but in no way do I correlate a bad review with you being a jerk. Quit apologising and grow a pair

But thanks Jack, btw.

c hack: I like the simplicity of the guitar and voice. I think you need to deliver the vocal with less blues and more of a smile in your voice. Like you know it is a joke rather than playing it seriously. (I realize that is totally esoteric and maybe you disagree.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. It was all serious until sunday, when the joke thing came around and it fit perfectly. I don't think I gave it enough time to get in full joke mode.

[prayformojo]

Back up in your ass like the resurection... pfm is doin' a goddamn review!

(* denotes that the song is a contender for my vote, and if MTV has taught me anything over the past 5 months, it's that my vote counts)

Let the typos and bad spelling begin!

Calfborg - The intro felt a bit out of place, like it didn't fit with the rest of the song. My biggest problem with this song is that it didn't feel like it went anywhere. A lot of repetition without enough variance. Something as simple as changing up the drum beat up from time to time would have helped this track emensly.

*Freddielove - I thought this track was very nice, though the elements didn't all seem to line up in some spots. (this comment is going to become one of the running themes in these reviews) I really liked the vibey-organ sound that runs under the piece. It has kind of a George Michaelsish vibe to it, which i can appreciate. I like the songwriting quite a bit. The ending is way to abrupt. I'd keep the hat going and fade out or something, but don't just cut it off. All in all, a good entry and contender.

Charcoal - Not a bad entry, but not one that really struck me. There was too much noise for my taste, especially on this style of song. I appreciate and dig the lo-fi sound, but I though this song would have been much better clean. Also, there were moments where (again) not all of the instrumental elements were lining up properly, especially the drums. I think I also would have enjoyed this more if you had added some noew elements as the song progressed. A background organ track or something, layering a few new elements (or pulling elements in and out) as the song progressed would have helped the repetative nature of the song.

Dentron 3199 - This just feels sloppy. For me, this style only works when all of the elements are really crisp and well lined up (see also: Pet Shop Boys, Electronic, The Streets, etc). Your flow doesn't always hit on the beats, but rather feels like you are just rapping without minding the background at all in parts. Also, the vocal doubling was off in a lot of spots, making the whole track feel rough.

*Explino! - Seriously, you 2 deserve eachother. Nice, bouncy, guitar driven pop/rock. Very well produced and fun to listen to. This would sound AWESOME live! Good job fellas.

Andrew Was Here at Midnight - So what's up with the "dusty plains" motif this week? Everyone's all high plains drifter this week. I thought this track started out pretty good, and then turned into a train wreck. Click tracks, kiddies, they are totally our friends. This song would have been pretty damn good if the elements had lined up at all, but it just sounds like a mish-mash or instruments and vocals that aren't hitting the beat. Keep recording, cause I heard a lot of good stuff hidden in there, but seriously... click track.

*Bob McRae - "My doctor says my anger is getting out of controll" is a great line. "Somebody save my soul" is not. This is a very good track. It's almost too bad it's tongue in cheek, cause I was really enjoying it as a "legitimate" song. It works well as a jokeish song too. Nice job all around. I loved your voice on the track and thought it was well written and well produced.

*Josh Woodward - I have to be honest, this is the first Josh woodward track I have listened to. I understand what everyone is talkign about. Very nice. This reminds me a lot of something RxW would write, which is awesome. I love the interplay of the instruments. Very lush and beautiful. I would pull back the drums a bit on the second verse, and maybe have a basic strings line come in a little earlier there. the third verse vocals and accordian are awesome. I'm not crazy about the somewhat disonant ending, but I don't think it hurts the song. Great job!

*C Hack - Ha! This is awesome! The lyrics are fantastic, and flow so well together. Thank you for keeping this the right legnth! Not a lot to say except great job.

so what have we learned:
-3 days waiting = guns or rambling, dusty western outlaws
-click tracks are awesome and should be used liberally

pfm would like to award the following certificates of acheivement:

Best Lyrics - C Hack
Best Instrumentals - Josh Woodward
Best Production - Josh Woodward
Most Likely to Get Stuck In My Head All Frikkin Week - Bob McRae
Runner Up - Freddielove
pfm's Vote - Josh Woodward

Good week this week, especially to the 5 contenders.

[jb]

if MTV has taught me anything over the past 5 months, it's that my vote counts

There's still an MTV?

[prayformojo]

if MTV has taught me anything over the past 5 months, it's that my vote counts

There's still an MTV?

they're thinking about changing the name to Rock-the-Good-Charlotte-Real-World-Vote-Rules-Challange Television. The logo will be tricky, but far more accurate.

"I want my RtGCRWVRCtv..."

[king_arthur]

ANDRE WAS HERE AT MIDNIGHT:
Rhythmic disconnects throughout; you might think about practicing
with a click track or drum machine at some point just to pull that
rhythmic thing more together. Doubling (?) the vocals didn't really
seem to help much; there are some spots in the song where your
voice comes across as reasonably sincere and emotional (the ending
of the song is NOT one of those places), and if you could just
capture the single voice doing that all the way through, that'd
be cool. The rhythm guitar part would be more interesting if you
built up a rhythm by accenting some of the strums more than
others, so that rather than a "da da da da da da da da" feel, we
got "DA da da DA da da da da" or something.

BOB MCRAE:
Work on getting rid of that buzz on the guitar tracks; I love the
tone on the guitars, but the buzz kinda spoiled the start of the
song. Liked your voice at the start of each verse, but by the
time we got to the choruses, there's some "pitchiness" that's
not so much fun to listen to. Lyric in the chorus seems pretty
forced ("my hunting truck better not throw a rod") - the song
title doesn't have to be the thing that rhymes, it just has to
(ought to) show up somewhere in the song. Again, at the end of
the song, that buzz is distracting - I'm guessing you've got some
pretty strong compression going on that rhythm guitar so that
any time the guitar isn't playing, the buzz comes right up to
greet us. Keeper, but I wish the lyric in the chorus wasn't so
forced...

CALFBORG:
Not my thing...

C HACK:
The whole "69" thing didn't work for me; I thought the chorus
was kinda interesting once we got to it at the end (although I'm
still not quite what that last line is, and it's not up in the
new lyrics thread yet), but the whole story line seemed way too
contrived for me... some of the phrasing at the start seemed a
little un-smooth as well... "just a breath" and "you sure added
another meaning" fer instance...

CHARCOAL:
I liked the guitar sounds at the start, but I was hoping they
would turn into something with a stronger rhythm to it... some
rhythm problems in the drums, particularly when we get to the
fills... is it sacrilege to suggest you might be better off with
a drum machine??? The "whooshy" sounds in the background throughout
are presumably there on purpose; I'd have preferred a cleaner
sound throughout...

DENTRON 3199:
Doubling the vocals didn't really help here, a single voice
would've had more impact, I think. Automatic point deduction
for songfighting about songfight (hey, I had to take the points
off for my "WTF"), but I did like the way the lyric was focused;
you had one idea to get across and you stayed close to it without
becoming totally repetitious. I can relate to what the song is
about, anyway...

EXPLINO!:
Felt like the chord pattern should've gone somewhere besides the
"I" chord at the start of some of the phrases (like it does at
the start of the instrumental break)... "now I'm so angry," try
just saying it the way it's said rather than getting "anGRY"
just so it'll rhyme - it's just an internal rhyme, anyway. The
style is not quite my thing, but the song is well done. It might've
made for a stronger song if we had more of a sense that the singer
was growing increasingly (or decreasingly) impatient with this
girl as the days passed - first day, it's not a big deal, second
day it's bothering him, third day he's going nuts - or, first
day, he's freaking, second day he's calmed down, third day he's
calling up somebody else to go out with. I didn't sense any
progression throughout the song, and I think something like that
would've given it more of a punch. I'll call it a keeper...

FREDDIE LOVE:
Sixties movie theme song... that swishy sound in the background
on the intro/chori seems a bit overused... sudden ending was
weird. I think your voice with the heavy reverb on it worked
well for this kind of song - the right sound, but maybe a few more
takes to nail the notes better would have helped. The rhythm
falls apart in a couple places, and one of the defining marks of
this genre is that it's generally very precisely played (that
would have been Andre Previn's orchestra or somebody doing those
string bits). Maybe Jim of Seattle could work up an instrumental
track for you, and then take your time getting a really good vocal
sound...

JOSH WOODWARD:
You're clearly the class act of this fight... I did think there
were some elements of the arrangement that detracted rather than
helping... the drum sounds, fer instance and the bubbly synth
stuff that shows up around 2:40 and elsewhere... I kinda felt like
you intentionally didn't want to do this one "straight," you had
to send us little clues that "I'm really cooler than this..."
At the start, when it's mostly just the electric piano and voice,
some of the breath sounds seem like they get in the way of the
story line, as well. A keeper, but every time I listen to it, it'll
bug me that it coulda been perfect, and it intentionally wasn't.

[c hack]

(although I'm
still not quite what that last line is, and it's not up in the
new lyrics thread yet)

"soften my offin' of you."

The whole song was sorta built around that line.

[c hack]

chahcole: hey, how come your voice sounds decent in this, but horrible in your cover of my song? I like this. If you had a nice voice and the lyrics weren't so cheesy, It'd be a keeper.

bob mcRae: starting out nice. Too much verb on the leading vox. Nice chorus. Not crazy about putting forth the idea that hunting can be a way to get out aggression. I don't know any hunters like that. I might be reading it wrong; the lyrics aren't up, but as far as I can tell, they're kinda confusing. The two things keeping this song from being a keeper are the lyrics -- I'm just not sure what you're saying, and the mix -- vox need to be more present. But it's got a great vibe and a really nice chorus. With more solid lyrics and a better mix it'd be a great song.

calfborg: not doing anything for me

freddielove: nice vibe. I like this. Love the bass -- got a great Thievery Corporation feel to it. How did you do that? I'm assuming real bass direct into mixer? Any plug-ins? Drums are kinda awkward, listen to Thievery for ideas. This could almost be Josh Woodward. Keeper.

dentron: lol. I normally hate songs about songfight, but this made me laugh out loud. Hence the l, o, and l. A throwaway song, of course, but it got a laugh out of me, and I'm glad it's here. You win for best interpretation of the title.

explino: not really doing anything for me. This sorta song needs to be really catchy, but it's pretty forgettable.

dre: man, you need voice lessons. Your stuff always has a great vibe to it; I really dug your AAD (first one, haven't listened to the 2nd yet), but it had the same problem: once the voice comes on, you're like "make it stop." You should make it a point to sing for at least an hour a day. The other problem with this song is the rhythm -- it's all over the place. It needs a solid beat.

josh woodward: there's something about your voice that I don't like, but I can't for the life of me figure out what it is. I wonder what would happen if you tried singing into different mics? I dunno, the problem is probably with me. It's a very small issue, though. Yay, Missoula! Don't listen to King Arthur -- the instrumentation is perfect. I never get sick of those compressed drums, like in Aimee Mann's "Wise Up." The only thing I don't like about this is the lyrics are kinda boring. Like, if you were telling your friend this story, they'd be like "so?" Keeper, though.


conclusion: It's between Woodward and Freddielove. It's very close, but Woody gets it b/c his ear is so perfect, and the song melodies are a little more memorable.

[Dave - so dark...]

So, well I'm done reviewing this week, so the new review style will have to start next week. Apologies again to all.

Please don't Jim. I've started thinking alot of the reviews nowadays are just a little too PC, washed down with honey style politeness. I was thinking to back on our first fight (angry all over) and everyone was ripping everyone apart.. okay, maybe it was a bit harsh then, but i really enjoyed reading the reviews for that fight.

in fact, i've decided to put one of my favorite reviews for that song in my sig.


while i'm here. calfborg, charcoal, and explino were great for this fight.. with explino getting my vote. I sense calfborg's entry was a parody of general songfight entries.. but i like it for that.

Seeya.

[j$]

So, well I'm done reviewing this week, so the new review style will have to start next week. Apologies again to all.

Please don't Jim. I've started thinking alot of the reviews nowadays are just a little too PC, washed down with honey style politeness. I was thinking to back on our first fight (angry all over) and everyone was ripping everyone apart.. okay, maybe it was a bit harsh then, but i really enjoyed reading the reviews for that fight. .

IMO - Reviews should be informative or entertaining, or preferably both.

If people try to be funny scathing, people complain. If people are nice, people complain. So, I would reccommend doing what you're comfortable with, rather than trying to please people. That always goes horrifically wrong.

Two things that I bear in mind when I review -

1)having a thought about something does not neccessarily make it right.

2)Be willing to stand by what you say. I.e. don't review and run. If people call you on something, be ready to defend it, or apologise.

[Jim of Seattle]

Hmmm...

Well, I can be honest without being mean about it. I know how it feels to get a nasty review, and it clouds the next 35 minutes of my day.

There's a big difference between something one doesn't like and something that's crappy. For example, I might hear an Eddiebangs song and think "Man, he's really excellent at this thing that I hate" and then hear one of WreckdoM's better efforts and think "Wow, lousy song, but it cracked me up". So who deserves the bad review? And I'm using two obvious examples, (Eddiebangs being extremely awesome at something I don't get into at all, and WreckdoM being extremely unmusical but occasionally making me laugh, like the broken clock that's right twice a day). What about all the less obvious ones?

Since nothing is really riding on these reviews, there's really little point in being "brutal", since it's just liable to upset someone for no reason that matters very much. If I really hate a songfight song, I'm not out any money, no one's being injured, there's not really a lot at stake. So why not be nice about it? Anyway, that's what I'm striving for. I don't want to make anyone mad. It's not worth it. But like C Hack said, if someone loves every single song, their review doesn't hold any weight. So there needs to be some happy medium. I'm working on it.