Files which claim to be MP3s but aren't actually MP3s

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Files which claim to be MP3s but aren't actually MP3s

Postby fluffy » Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:11 pm

Overcast's "Are You Having Fun" isn't an mp3, but an mpeg-1 layer 2 audio file. This makes it not play on a lot of portable players, including the iPod.
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Re: Files which claim to be MP3s but aren't actually MP3s

Postby Kamakura » Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:53 pm

fluffy wrote:Overcast's "Are You Having Fun" isn't an mp3, but an mpeg-1 layer 2 audio file. This makes it not play on a lot of portable players, including the iPod.


How can you tell?... Couldn't it be re-saved as an MP3?
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Postby roymond » Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:11 pm

Standard format used in radio production...good compression, superior than mp3. There are tons for free converters that will create WAV or MP3 files from them.

Oh yeah, iTunes compatible, so just LAME from there, Fluffy.
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Postby fluffy » Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:43 pm

Roymond: Well, yeah, I've already converted it for my own collection (remember who you're talking to, here). Just saying it's a problem in the archive. I can provide a transcoded file if anyone wants it though the quality will be even lower than it is already.

Also, layer-2 is not better (doesn't it lack the psychoacoustic model which makes mp3 so useful?), and this particular file is so badly-encoded it doesn't matter anyway.

Kamakura: first off, you can tell because it won't transfer to an iPod, with an error about how it can't be played on an iPod. secondly, you can tell by looking at the file information in any player which actually shows that kind of detail (such as quicktime player, iTunes, etc.) which states that it's actually layer-2, not layer-3 which is what makes an mp3 an mp3.

The hard part was figuring out WHICH song was causing this problem, since iTunes is a bit obtuse when it comes to actually reporting errors like this (it basically just says there is an error, and gives the first error-causing song's title, without location or album or artist or whatever).
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Postby roymond » Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:02 pm

yeah, well, I thought it odd you were bringing it up. Now I find it odd I wasn't connecting this discussion to the archive. What with it being in "Quality Control" and all one would think I'd catch on, but hey, make no assumptions these days. I'm know it's in good hands.
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Postby Kamakura » Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:08 am

roymond wrote:Standard format used in radio production

fluffy wrote:layer-2 is not better (doesn't it lack the psychoacoustic model which makes mp3 so useful?)


This begs the question why is it (MP2) then used as the standard for radio production, and not MP3?
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Postby fluffy » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:18 am

That's what I want to know! (But that's not <a href="http://www.qwantz.com/index.pl?comic=693">begging the question</a>.)

I think Roymond may have been confused by how in broadcast they typically use MPEG-2, not MPEG-1 layer 2 (totally different beasts). The MPEG naming scheme has always been a huge source of confusion, though; a lot of people think that mp3 is MPEG-3, but there is no such thing as that (it skips to MPEG-4, and then the next in-development standard is MPEG-7). Also, the different enumerations are more or less orthogonal anyway, MPEG-# refers to the container format, while layer-# refers to the specific CODEC being used. Layer 3 audio can be put into any MPEG file; a DivX video is specifically an MPEG-4 video with a layer 3 audio track.

For example.

Anyway, as far as I can tell, Overcast's "Are You Having Fun" is the only not-mp3 in the archive. I haven't done an exhaustive search yet though.
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Postby Kamakura » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:28 pm

fluffy wrote:That's what I want to know! (But that's not <a href="http://www.qwantz.com/index.pl?comic=693">begging the question</a>.)


You are one pedantic fluffy Porcupine!
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Postby fodroy » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:44 pm

fluffy wrote:That's what I want to know! (But that's not <a href="http://www.qwantz.com/index.pl?comic=693">begging the question</a>.)

http://begthequestion.info/ <--- a website devoted entirely to the issue.
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Postby Adam! » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:46 pm

fodroy wrote:http://begthequestion.info/ <--- a website devoted entirely to the issue.

Is that guy retarded? Why is he fucking freaking out about a phrase having two different, unrelated meanings in two different contexts? Why does he think the more esoteric, non-obvious meaning supersedes the literal meaning of the phrase (I'll assume it's because he's a pretentious douche). Hopefully he doesn't find out about the whole "I could / couldn't care less", or the entire class of words and phrases called antagonyms (where the same word or phrase has two distinct and opposing meanings in the same context), or his head might a'splode.

Very simply, when people aren't talking about logical fallacies, saying "<something> begs the question: <insert question>" is perfectly grammatically correct. It means, literally, "asks for this question". It's also a type of fallacy. Does he wig out when people talk about a slope being slippery in the context of hiking? Does he demand that they stop calling rodeo dummies "Straw Men"? Does he also have a page against using "imply" to mean "suggest"?

Woah. Didn't mean to go off on a rant there, but that kind of "my definition is better than yours because I learned mine in college" bullshit is a serious pet peeve.
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Postby Leaf » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:53 pm

I love you Puce.
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Postby Adam! » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:11 pm

Leaf wrote:I love you Puce.

Sig'd.
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Postby fluffy » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:29 pm

Puce wrote:(angry ranting about a site which was created in jest)


Dude. Chill.
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Postby Adam! » Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:12 pm

fluffy wrote:the site was created in jest

Sort of. This site was the joke (specifically the Marching on Washington part). BTQ is serious, although the author obviously has some homour about it. Don't read too much anger into my post; curt and colourful phrases about his head exploding and him being a douche are mostly there to make Leaf love me. My issue with BTQ snobbery predates both of those sites, so it's more apt to read it as:
Puce wrote:(angry ranting triggered by a site created in jest)

or even better yet:
Puce wrote:(totally awesome and accurate ranting triggered by a site created in jest)

Yeah, that's more like it. :)
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Postby jack » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:34 pm

Puce wrote:
..........Woah. Didn't mean to go off on a rant there, but that kind of "my definition is better than yours because I learned mine in college" bullshit is a serious pet peeve.


Is that guy retarded? Why is he fucking freaking out about a phrase having two different, unrelated meanings in two different contexts? ;)
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Postby j$ » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:29 am

Although don't get Jack started on two different words being used to represent the same thing ... such as, oh, Turin and Torino :)
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Postby fluffy » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:41 am

Well, so much for this thread's usefulness.
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Postby j$ » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:43 am

We're just keeping it alive long beyond the 'the life support of interest' switch should have flicked to 'off' - call us samaritans :p
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Postby fluffy » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:51 am

Except, uh, Samaritans were a people who were entirely reviled back in Jesus' day. The point of the allegory was that even though someone may be a Samaritan they could still be friendly and altruistic.

Or was that your point?

Anyway, there could be other non-mp3 mp3s in the archive, and it'd be nice to be able to point those out too so that admins can replace them if so desired.
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Postby Lyricburglar » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:15 pm

fluffy wrote:Except, uh, Samaritans were a people who were entirely reviled back in Jesus' day.


Yeah!? Even by other Samaratans? Christmas time would have been uncomfortable.
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Postby fluffy » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:38 pm

No, like, in the same way that Iraqis are today. Or maybe the French.
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Postby jack » Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:27 pm

j$ wrote:Although don't get Jack started on two different words being used to represent the same thing ... such as, oh, Turin and Torino :)


snicker.....
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