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Pin the "Radio Release" forum topic to the front p

Post by blue »

or create a FAQ entry stating the "offical" songfight position on reproducing songfight material.

That thread got a lot of attention from people wanting permission to replay bands on various podcasts and whatnot.

Or whatever super-ambitious variant of indicating artistic license for reproduction on a per-song or per-artist etc yadda LOVE YOU.
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Post by Spud »

well, if you would give me a link to the damn thing maybe I could find it.
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Post by blue »

THE thread!
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Post by Spud »

What is Song Fight's stance on copyright?
Song Fight will take no official or unofficial position on this issue. Enter at your own risk. By submitting your song, you are authorizing us to post it permanently on a publicly viewable Web site where it can be downloaded by anyone.

Song Fight takes no position on how the individual artists feel about playing their stuff in public venues outside of Song Fight. I mean, how could we? It isn't really our stuff, now is it?
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Post by frankie big face »

Spud wrote:By submitting your song, you are authorizing us to post it permanently on a publicly viewable Web site where it can be downloaded by anyone.
Are you saying you would refuse to remove a song from the archives if the artist asked you to?
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Post by Spud »

frankie big face wrote:
Spud wrote:a quote from the faq
Are you saying you would refuse to remove a song from the archives if the artist asked you to?
Those requests would be handled on a case-by-case basis. However, according to the faq, we don't have to.
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Post by blue »

yeah, i know about that FAQ entry, but.. well, i dunno.

podcasts and whatnot are getting popular, as are (probably temporarily, but maybe not) requests from radio DJs to play songfight songs. i guess you can address something by refusing to address it, but.. it still isn't addressed.

you know what i'm saying: it's probably OK with everyone on songfight for any songfight song ever to get played anywhere, but it's probably not OK with anyone for someone to take songfight songs and put them on a CD and sell them for profit without giving anything back to songfight.

is that too much of a stance to publish? is it not worth the effort of making songfighter music easier to consume and reuse for those who wish to?

it is, after all, merely a suggestion. :D
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Post by roymond »

Garageband and Magnatunes state that their catalogs are "podsafe", with that Creative Commons license for non-commercial use.

Since Songfight isn't a label and doesn't represent the fighters in any way, I don't know how this ties in, exactly. Except that a blanket statement along the lines of "use of any of the songs found on this site requires the explicit permission of the artist" might address this situation without imposing any more or less responsibility on SF or it's operators.
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Post by blue »

roymond wrote:Except that a blanket statement along the lines of "use of any of the songs found on this site requires the explicit permission of the artist" might address this situation without imposing any more or less responsibility on SF or it's operators.
yeah but i don't think that statement is true, necessarily, and it leads to threads like the one i was asking if we could avoid, ala "can i use song X on my podcast/radio show?"
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Post by jack »

commercial use of any of the songs found on this site requires the explicit permission of the artist...........
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Post by frankie big face »

I'd like to think that when I post a song to SongFight, I'm not giving up my rights as the composer/performer. I'd also like to think that if I want one of my songs removed for whatever reason that the site owners would comply with that request, no questions asked. Because it's my song and I retain the rights to distribute it as I see fit. I don't really care what the FAQ says, submitting a song to SF doesn't make it the property of the site owners/administrators.

Anyway, I know I'm a little off-topic, but I think jack's italicized word probably covers it.
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Post by Spud »

Frankie, when you first started submitting to songfight, you were sending your song into a black hole, with no one on the other end who would as much as respond to posts. Sometimes, you are prone to refer to these as the good old days of songfight (as is Dr. Worm). However, the chances of having a song taken down were pretty much zero.

Now, the policy is explicit, and you can read it right there in the faq, which is linked to the front page. Besides that, you have two pretty reasonable people who you can pm, email, or even call on the telephone, in the case that you have a special need that falls outside of the stated policy. It has happened. A song has been taken down, by request. I must admit that reasons were stated, so we didn't have to ask any questions.

John and I have bent over backwards to make this site more reponsive to the community and the individuals involved. I don't know why people don't just assume that we would do the right thing.

As far as rights go, we only have one goal and one responsibility. We want to make sure that songfight.org has the right to post your songs, and to keep them in the archive. That is why the faq is stated the way that is is.

If other people want to do something else with the materials that they find here, that is between them and the artists. We do not have any other rights related to these songs. Copyright and ownership are retained by the various individual artists. Some radio DJs and podcasters ask permission of the artists, some do not. That is their choice, and at their own risk. We are not in a position to be a clearinghouse for the intellectual property rights involved in these submissions.

By sending them to us, you give us the right to post them, and to archive them permanently. If you need to change that agreement, contact us and we will hear you out.
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Post by Bjam »

Maybe put a thing saying "If you want to play any music on here go to the boards and find their membership and find their e-mail and ask nicely." Or have a go betweener that has a list of all the people that are cool with you playing their music, or alternately people that are not cool with you playing their music, and say that you can e-mail them and ask if x person is cool with you playing a song. Then that person can even tell the musician.

Or just suck it up and notice that it's all free publicity so what's the problem?
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Post by Leaf »

I'm just happy if anyone enjoys listening to something I've written, played on or whatever. Podcast away.

The other day I bought a lottery ticket , and then I accidently threw it away. A scratch and win with a top prize of $1000 a week for 25 years.


Did I throw away a winner? Is it buried in the trash or burnt in the incinerator? At songfight, or ANY web based music resource, you're throwing out fishinglines, buying a lottery ticket, whatever. Sometimes you catch something, sometimes it gets away. So what.

I'd love to be rich but I'm not playing music for that reason. Music didn't buy my house, and it was pretty clear a long time ago that it wouldnt. (fish did).
Cause man, the make it big thing these days is a whore lottery. I honestly think the cool thing about websites like this is that IF something is truely stellar, people will tell people who will tell people. If someone truely deserves the superstardom of say, U2 or Britteny, they'll get it cause they should. I see this happening if the music publishing companies loose all the power they leveraged from artists simply cause they had the printing press. People will publish their own works...and people will find it. and the cream will rise to the top, not because the adverts made it so, but because everyone knows it should! If no one hits that level of stardom, but everyone is enjoying music that really hits them, and tons of people get to make it and be heard... bloody fantastic.

I never would have heard anyone here if it wasn't for the internet.

So if someone steals my song, sure, financially it'd suck, and yeah, I'd rather know about it. Greed is powerful. But, also, if someone stole MY song?? Well talk about validation!! And if I'm too crappy to do it again, then I had my moment.

And this is no attack on those who have an agenda of making money from writing songs. This is my opinon on it.
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Post by jack »

Spud wrote: I don't know why people don't just assume that we would do the right thing.
poor broad generalization spud and you know it. not everyone thinks this way. ;)
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Post by Spud »

jack wrote:
Spud wrote: I don't know why people don't just assume that we would do the right thing.
poor broad generalization spud and you know it. not everyone thinks this way. ;)
You're absolutely right, Jack. Sweeping generalizations are ALWAYS bad. I don't mean to offend anyone. I am just trying to say that this isn't our call. It's yours, the artists. Its your stuff, not ours.
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Post by frankie big face »

Spud wrote: John and I have bent over backwards to make this site more reponsive to the community and the individuals involved. I don't know why people don't just assume that we would do the right thing.
Maybe because you say things like "according to the faq, we don't have to." You could have simply said "we'll look at the requests on a case-by-case basis" or even "sure, we'll take it down."

My intention was not to make this is a big issue, but I'm pretty sure I heard some gnashing of aministrative teeth. Every time I express my opinion or raise a question/concern, I get hit with the "good old days" reference and the insinuation that I don't appreciate you and John for all your hard work. That seems to be a response reserved especially for me, which I think is unfair. I'll refrain from making any further comments on the subject so as not to offend you further.
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Post by Spud »

Frank, now you are the one who knows better.

I, and I know I can speak for JB on this, hold your opinion in high regard. Perhaps the reason that I get a little agitated from time to time by your comments is that I take them more seriously than the ordinary babblings.

I apologize for my apparently gruff response. Perhaps "We don't have to" WAS an unfortunate way of stating that there is an explicit agreement that we will keep the submissions in the archive permanently. I did not intend a perjorative reading.

This issue is a serious one. People are asking us to make blanket statements about rights, regarding podcasting, radio play, etc. We cannot do this, for obvious reasons. We retain only certain, very narrow rights, and I was just trying to clarify what these are. They include posting the songs, and keeping them in the archive. That's pretty much it.

Again, if a particular artist has a problem with either of these, we would be glad to discuss them on a case by case basis. I am not gonna make any blanket statements that modify the existing arrangement here on a public forum.

Please keep the suggestions coming. Whether we agree with them or not, or implement them or not, they do give us food for thought, and are taken into account in the long run. Especially yours.
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Post by Spud »

Now I am gonna get a bunch of posts from angry people who wonder if their posts are the ones I am referring to as ordinary babblings. Let me clarify in advance: YES.
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Post by jb »

Look, asshole, I do NOT babble.
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Post by roymond »

I will remind the general public that just because you found an mp3 on some jerk-ass website, this doesn't give you any right to use it in your podcast or radio show anymore than finding a commercial CD on the sidewalk gives you such rights. The website doesn't need to state this. It is a god-given truth (apparently) established by copyright law in the US that the rights belong to the creator and the creator alone unless they have been contracted over to another party. If you are not that other party, then you have no right to use it without the owner's permission.

This may even apply to Songfight.
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