Can we please get multiple titles again?

[fluffy]

Locked Box is my favorite Frankie Big Face song ever, and I don't think I've ever disliked a Frankie song. Garage Band people are on crack.

Also I think Garage Band people have a tendency to dis other peoples' music so that other people are predisposed to rate them downwards or something because GB's structure is all competition-based and dumb.

[HeuristicsInc]

Hey, Frankie, I just added your "Locked Box" to my upcoming favorites "origami" CD. It's awesome!
-bill

[roymond]

I recently started posting songs to http://www.slicethepie.com/

They limit a song's lyric to 500 characters. They tell you this after waiting forever for the upload to complete. Anyone every heard of javascript validation? Fluffy...kick some ass!

[Billy's Little Trip]

the singer kinda sounds like billy joel on crack

That's a first. But this made ME LOL.

[Lord of Oats]

does it matter who i am? does it matter if i haven't submitted a song to this site?
i take the time to listen to the songs each fight, and usually take some time to review them.
not everyone who submits a song reviews the fight.
a lot of "old" songfighters populate every part of the message board with a multitude of posts and are not active in submitting songs to the site.
but i do represent traffic to this site.
i download the songs.
i listen to them throughout the week.
usually, i take the time to sit down and type out reviews.
i am a fan of songfight and a fan of a lot of songfighters.
that's who i am.

Yes, it matters. It's not like I said you weren't entitled to your opinion because you don't enter fights. I just wanted to know if you ever do. In the real world, professional music critics are probably not professional musicians. This is probably a good thing, since most audiences aren't professional musicians, either. I'd like more feedback from people who aren't songfighters. Taking time to review and vote is great, especially if you aren't even in the fight.

My point really is that it helps to know where someone is coming from when they say something. When I read reviews by Ross Durand, and I want to get an idea of what his perspective is and how I can use his opinion, I can listen to his songs, I can look on his web site, and I can gather a fair amount about him from his posts all around the site. When I read a review of an album by Anthony DeCurtis, I can do online research on him to get the same ideas. When I read your opinion about something, it's a dead-end. All I know is that it's someone sitting behind a keyboard. I'd just like a little basic information, e.g., What is your background with music? What part of the world do you live in? Gender? Age? Hobbies? Favorite artists? If you don't make your own music, it would help a lot to know what mainstream acts you dig.

[W]e're making music for SOMEONE, right? This isn't just a production/composition circlejerk, I hope.

Yes, exactly. When I rule the world, SF Radio will be broadcast on global public address systems. I'm just curious about the existing audience.

They don't necessarily increase the number or quality of reviews, but were they supposed to?

They weren't given a fair chance. I think it was a holiday slump, for which there is no cure. It took until the second week, but it did get me to do reviews again. It is much easier to review a smaller fight. If people just don't want to do it, whatever. But I was re-working my review strategy so that all songs on the site would get reviews from me under the multi-system. So much for that...for right now?

[Y]our opinion counts as much as anyone elses.

I'm not trying to discount jackfrost's opinion whatsoever by saying this, but I disagree. I don't think this is an egalitarian society. Your opinion only counts to the extent that it can persuade those is in charge, or indirectly, that it can persuade the ones who can persuade those, and so on. Of course, there is a bit of a dichotomy to the site's "control". While the administrative side is a benevolent dictatorship, the content is an open democracy. But even then, we're going to be talking about how you can influence the submitting and posting public.

[Caravan Ray]

I recently started posting songs to http://www.slicethepie.com/

Wow ... that place is intense. I was thinking of joining, but I thought better of it ... maybe I'll wait a year or so to sign up.

Yeah - it's pretty hardcore. Don't go there if you want to feel good about yourself.

But, having said that - I like GarageBand and SlicethePie - because of the random, harsh, anonymous feedback. It all helps.

And I guess it is the answer if you think there aren't enough reviews here - try bunging your songs on one of those sites. You get quantity if not necessarily quality - but if you are not prepared to handle a complete bollocking - do not attempt it. If you have a thick skin though - some of the feedback really is valuable.

As others have said - reviews aren't everything here - either do them or don't do them. Whatever. It is an inescapable fact that the more you get to know people here - the harder it sometimes is to give truly honest opinions. Most people tend to be pretty nice to my songs now (FBF excepted of course), and most people here have knowledge of my previous stuff so they have a bit of an idea up front where I'm coming from. Getting cold, hard, first-impression opinions from people who don't know me from a bar of soap is confronting - but I find it useful.
(though I won't pretend that the "bear-bellie, bald, 40 year old dad trying to be cool and show that he's a real rock star inside" comment didn't smart! Ouch! - that one hit right between the eyes!)

[Caravan Ray]

My point really is that it helps to know where someone is coming from when they say something. When I read reviews by Ross Durand, and I want to get an idea of what his perspective is and how I can use his opinion, I can listen to his songs, I can look on his web site, and I can gather a fair amount about him from his posts all around the site. When I read a review of an album by Anthony DeCurtis, I can do online research on him to get the same ideas. When I read your opinion about something, it's a dead-end. All I know is that it's someone sitting behind a keyboard. I'd just like a little basic information, e.g., What is your background with music? What part of the world do you live in? Gender? Age? Hobbies? Favorite artists? If you don't make your own music, it would help a lot to know what mainstream acts you dig.

You make a good point. The great value of the reviews here is that because of the community nature of the place, the reviews are usually well-considered - we know where the reviewers head is at musically, and the reviewers know what to expect from the artist. This is the direct opposite of the random, anonymous opinions I mention in my previous post (I like to receive both).

Having said that though - it isn't really Jack Frost's job to tell you all about himself. Just read his reviews of you - and how he reviews others, and make your own judgement about whether you think his opinions are worth taking notice of or not. I recall working out pretty quickly that whoever he was, his comments made sense - so now I take notice of what he says.

[bz£]

if you are not prepared to handle a complete bollocking - do not attempt it. If you have a thick skin though - some of the feedback really is valuable.

If you can't handle that, then do not attempt any kind of creative art.

(though I won't pretend that the "bear-bellie, bald, 40 year old dad trying to be cool and show that he's a real rock star inside" comment didn't smart! Ouch! - that one hit right between the eyes!)

Oh, we already know that you're a real rock star on the inside. Perhaps the message hasn't reached those pie slicing folks yet. Someone should dispatch a memorandum immediately.

[Lunkhead]

Ray, what do those reviews like the ones you posted do for you other than help thicken your skin? They don't seem to include anything constructive, as far as I can tell. They don't like your singing, but they don't mention any specific issues like pitch, enunciation, emoting, etc., If they just don't like your voice, there doesn't seem to be much you could do about it, even if you wanted to.

[Caravan Ray]

Ray, what do those reviews like the ones you posted do for you other than help thicken your skin? They don't seem to include anything constructive, as far as I can tell. They don't like your singing, but they don't mention any specific issues like pitch, enunciation, emoting, etc., If they just don't like your voice, there doesn't seem to be much you could do about it, even if you wanted to.

They simply tell me if people like the song or not. That's enough.

I don't really need or want constructive criticism from people who hate the song. It would be like me writing to Celine Dion and saying "I don't like your new single - I think it needs more raucous shouting, sexual innuendo and surf guitars".


But is good to get an idea of exactly how many people hate the song. For a song like "Ninja Gang" - thats about 90%. Thats OK - I expect that, it's a novelty song. I like the song because I think it has good energy despite the appalling recording. The 10% or so who gave me good reviews seem to like it for the same reason - so that sort of validates my opinion.

[jack]

[Y]our opinion counts as much as anyone elses.

I'm not trying to discount jackfrost's opinion whatsoever by saying this, but I disagree. I don't think this is an egalitarian society. Your opinion only counts to the extent that it can persuade those is in charge, or indirectly, that it can persuade the ones who can persuade those, and so on. Of course, there is a bit of a dichotomy to the site's "control". While the administrative side is a benevolent dictatorship, the content is an open democracy. But even then, we're going to be talking about how you can influence the submitting and posting public.

oust the mods!

[Lord of Oats]

I don't really need or want constructive criticism from people who hate the song. It would be like me writing to Celine Dion and saying "I don't like your new single - I think it needs more raucous shouting, sexual innuendo and surf guitars".

But then I'd probably listen to Céline Dion.

True story: Vegetarian Rage and I were listening to one of her songs, and I said, "I really can't get into this as much as I want to because there's no epic guitar solo right here where I want there to be one."

Of course, I have no idea what song this was. No shredding? Not memorable, in my book.

*ahem*

As far as these sitess go, I am pretty fragile as far as criticism goes. Could this perhaps toughen me up, being bashed by anonymous people that are probably trying a little too hard to deliberately be a bunch of cockbuckets? I'm willing to try it out, I think, unless..

...there's some kind of upload agreement where they own me forever. For instance, Frontalot doesn't host songs on Myspace, because he says that Fox owns his songs forever if he does that. That's been enough to get me not to post any songs since reading that tidbit, though I haven't confirmed it myself. I'm thinking of bypassing the Myspace jukebox and putting eSnips widgets on my page, or eventually just linking to a web site. I read the eSnips upload agreement carefully back when I signed up, and it seemed to indicate that any claim they have to my intellectual property was void immediately if I were to simply remove the content from their site.

Maybe we need another thread?

Music Promotion and Storage Outside of Song Fight! - dealing with benefits and risks of different entities, any relevant experience with these sites

I assume this would go under Help And How To?

[jack]

As far as these sitess go, I am pretty fragile as far as criticism goes.

man, i know it seems like i'm picking on you but honestly, you're such a huge target. some tough love advice (cause i know you mean well)... leave something to the imagination and quit wearing everything out on your sleeve. like erik mentioned earlier, your posts read like a personal blog. and those are always the easiest targets (those that are overly sincere and self serving).

i know. tough love. i'm a dick. and you've taken the hazing fairly well. so far.

[Rabid Garfunkel]

WTF is a bear-bellie anyway? I'm assuming basic 'net illiteracy is at work here, though the combinations of potential misspellings and their attendant imagery are making my head spin.

[Lunkhead]

...there's some kind of upload agreement where they own me forever. For instance, Frontalot doesn't host songs on Myspace, because he says that Fox owns his songs forever if he does that. That's been enough to get me not to post any songs since reading that tidbit, though I haven't confirmed it myself.

Google this: billy bragg myspace

Billy Bragg didn't like MySpace's terms, so they worked with him to change their terms till he liked them, which was good enough for me. Your/Frontalot's mileage may vary, of course.

[Caravan Ray]

WTF is a bear-bellie anyway? I'm assuming basic 'net illiteracy is at work here, though the combinations of potential misspellings and their attendant imagery are making my head spin.

If you get a beer belly from drinking too much beer, maybe you get a bear belly from eating too many bears. That's pretty hardcore.

[HeuristicsInc]

I feel like I have eaten bear once, at my Dad's club some years ago... it did not cause me to gain much weight, though, so it was evidently not enough.
-bill

[Hoblit]

I feel like I have eaten bear once, at my Dad's club some years ago... it did not cause me to gain much weight, though, so it was evidently not enough.
-bill

"Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes well, he eats you" - The Stranger

[frankie big face]

I ate bear in Tallin, Estonia with a side of cinnamon beer brewed on site and it was one tasty meal. When I was through, I guess you could say I had both a beer- and a bear-belly. Ha ha ha ha!

[Hoblit]

I ate bear in Tallin, Estonia with a side of cinnamon beer brewed on site and it was one tasty meal. When I was through, I guess you could say I had both a beer- and a bear-belly. Ha ha ha ha!

he he... cute

I had Bear at a 'hunting day' event at a church a long time ago... unfortunately there was no beer on hand. (The Bear was good though, had rabbit, squirrel, possum, snake and a few other things that I can't remember... ) (oh: buffalo ((which I also had a steak house once)) and venison were also there)

Now, back on topic. Mixed feelings about two fights... more clicks and sometimes I don't bother with clicking so much. But shorter fights are better for listening continuity. (and it makes it easier on my office mate)

[Reist]

But, having said that - I like GarageBand and SlicethePie - because of the random, harsh, anonymous feedback. It all helps.

I'd disagree about Garageband - I've gotten nothing useful out of it. I guess, as you said, it lets you know if people liked your song or not, but there's no quality in the reviews. Too many reviews have to be completed to enter a song in the competition, so people rush through them too quickly. I don't think I've ever given a 3 rating to a reviewer, mostly because their opinions have little basis (likely due to a 90 second listen), and a good majority of them don't type coherent english. For example -

There music its just don't get me going at all.I like to see they work on there songs..

That's just bad.

The vocals need to be pulled out more because they are a strength for you. I think the guitars are good but again need to be pulled forward more. Love the song!!! Very catchy

Vocals are a strength for me? Get real! The guitar in this song was too high in the mix - I think this person was on the crack.

Didn't care for the vocals--doubling sounds kind of cheesy---instead of fatter, simple lick but catchy---the vocal "effect" was too distracting for me--like the end sequence best of all!!!

Um ... fatter? Their words are incoherent - I can't understand what they're trying to tell me. At least they know I have a weak voice.

Why would I review more songs to post another one of mine, when the quality of reviews is so weak? I've considered taking down my garageband page, since it just makes me look bad (the one song I have rated is in the bottom 600 in rock).

What do I have to do to enter songs onto the pie slice website?

[obscurity]

When I rule the world, SF Radio will be broadcast on global public address systems.

Wow! There have been some brutal dictators over the years, but that's just plain sadistic.