Where are the voters lately?

[Lunkhead]

It seems like the fights haven't been getting that many votes lately. A fight hasn't gotten >100 votes since "History of My Broken Heart" back in Aug./Sept. last year, and the fights since then have only averaged about 57 votes each, compared to the overall average of about 90 votes for all fights with >1 vote recorded. The average for the year of fights ending with "HoMBH" was around 111. Any thoughts on this, anybody?

[Billy's Little Trip]

Answer:
Because I haven't been in many fights lately, so the friend flooding is way down?

Solutions:
Song Fight gives away a free SF T-shirt every month to the fighter with the most combined votes. This will increase entries and total votes.
This can also be paid for with either donations or betting pools.

Benefit:
Song Fight will grow faster by word of mouth and will eventually get enough traffic that interested Internet companies will want to sponsor SF. Thus leading to bigger prizes and making Spud and JB richer than they could ever imagine in their wildest dreams. Yachts, half naked models, glasses of wine with little umbrellas in them.....the whole nine yards.

[The Weakest Suit]

i don't think i've actually voted in a fight since sometime in march. i usually intend to but never actually get around to doing it. the voting just doesn't seem to matter. half the time the winners don't even acknowledge their win, so what's the point?
another point that keeps me from voting: i never know exactly when the voting ends. i would love it if somewhere on the main page a voting deadline was stated. because of the lag between the deadline for submissions for the next fight and the posting of the winner of the previous fight, i have no idea when voting is actually over. if the deadline for voting is the same as the deadline for submissions for the next fight, it would be nice to have that information on the front page.

[Paco Del Stinko]

Are people not listening, either? I listen and vote. Though I've still not voted for myself. Come on peoples: forums, sidefights and all are swell, but why is this place here? Huh? Chop chop-let's go!

I always assume that the voting deadline is the same as the submission due date/time, and vote by then at the latest. I've missed maybe three votes in 2+ years.

[erik]

It seems like the fights haven't been getting that many votes lately. A fight hasn't gotten >100 votes since "History of My Broken Heart" back in Aug./Sept. last year, and the fights since then have only averaged about 57 votes each, compared to the overall average of about 90 votes for all fights with >1 vote recorded. The average for the year of fights ending with "HoMBH" was around 111. Any thoughts on this, anybody?

Here are some things to consider:

1) Is the music now worse than it was around the time of HoMBH? If people are less interested in listening, then there will be less voters.
2) Are amount of fresh blood smaller than it was around the time of HoMBH? If there are less new people bringing in new listeners, then there will be less voters.
3) Are the people who have been around for a while promoting songfight less than they were around the time of HoMBH? If there are less reminders on the internet that SF is still going on, then there will be less voters.

[jb]

Well, the music isn't worse, in my opinion. I know I'll get some flak for this, but here's my opinion based on my perspective over the years. People have consistently tended to think the music goes downhill when they themselves and/or their "Song Fight Peer Group" have reduced their participation level substantially. When in reality, any given fight from any time period will have a couple keepers, and some fights will have several. There are some fluke periods when three or four fights in a short period of time have an abnormal number of keepers, but it seems to me that those fluke periods are spread out over the "lifespan" of Song Fight.

I think that sometimes people confuse the quality of the music with their own enjoyment of both home recording and the Song Fight community, and when the latter wanes they become convinced the former is the problem.

As for the voting, my suspicion is that the regular participants currently aren't as invested in promoting themselves online as previous regular participants were, and treat the competition as completely an end in itself. Therefore, fewer people are being driven to vote.

JB

[erik]

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to say that I think that the music quality is down. I was just saying that if it WAS down, that would account for less voters, as would the other things I mentioned.

[frankie big face]

As for the voting, my suspicion is that the regular participants currently aren't as invested in promoting themselves online as previous regular participants were...

And with good reason. The word on the boards seems to be if you tell your friends or encourage people to vote for your song or post it on your own website or call your mom, you are a friend-flooder and you suck. In the old days (when the music was better...haha), no-one cared about that stuff because it was all in good fun and everyone wasn't so goddamn defensive about EVERYTHING. I won my first fight and then didn't win for a while. Was I a friend flooder? I don't know or remember, but I'm sure I told people about the site and my song because I was excited about it. Now, if you show excitement by encouraging your friends to vote for you, you are a dick. Or you have to encourage them to "come to the site and listen to everyone's songs and then, if you still feel my song is the best, vote for me."

[jb]

Sorry Erik, I guess I'm a little sensitive about that area.

I agree that people bitching about friend flooding can be off-putting. If somebody tells 9 friends to go vote for them, and my song can't get more than 9 votes on its own merits and I don't try to push people to go vote for me, then I suck and deserve to lose. If somebody comes and clicks more than one song, two people win.

People who bitch about friend-flooding are whiny bitches. Nobody should ever be penalized, and nobody will in *my* book, for having people who support them. "Fans" we sometimes call them. That is *not* cheating, and is completely in the spirit of music. In fact, I make this declaration:

EVERYBODY SHOULD FRIEND FLOOD EVERY TIME THEY ENTER SONG FIGHT!

[Billy's Little Trip]

EVERYBODY SHOULD FRIEND FLOOD EVERY TIME THEY ENTER SONG FIGHT!

Oh, you're just asking for trouble, mister.
....should be quite entertaining.
NUR EI.... errr, I mean, SONG FIGHT!

[Caravan Ray]

People who bitch about friend-flooding are whiny bitches. Nobody should ever be penalized, and nobody will in *my* book, for having people who support them. "Fans" we sometimes call them. That is *not* cheating, and is completely in the spirit of music. In fact, I make this declaration:

EVERYBODY SHOULD FRIEND FLOOD EVERY TIME THEY ENTER SONG FIGHT!

Yes - I've never understood the problem with FF-ing. It seems fine to me.

Unless of course someone is somehow giving themselves multiple votes - that would suck.

For the "Rhymes With Lucia" fight - I got 6 votes. This was achieved by voting for myself anonymously in every Qantas Club lounge I visited on the way between Brisbane and Santa Cruz and back for SF!Live. That sort of thing should frowned upon with utmost vigour. I am scum.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Yes - I've never understood the problem with FF-ing. It seems fine to me.

You...do...realize that the second F doesn't stand for fucking, right?
His Friends << << Caravan Ray

[Reist]

I haven't voted for a while because I haven't been in a fight for a while. When I enter, I feel obligated to listen and vote ... but if I don't enter, I feel no obligation - which is fair, I think.

[Steve Durand]

I haven't voted for a while because I haven't been in a fight for a while. When I enter, I feel obligated to listen and vote ... but if I don't enter, I feel no obligation - which is fair, I think.

Yeah but for the vote count to be in the range of 100 there clearly have to be many people who do not enter, but listen and vote anyway. If only people who entered voted, then the vote count would only be in the 20s - 30s.

[frankie big face]

I think the point about having a voting "deadline" is a good one, although I'm not sure "deadline" is the right word. You know what I mean. I actually think JB and Spud are a little too efficient with the site. If the songs go up on a Thursday and Joe Passerby doesn't notice them until Tuesday and there are 30 songs, by the time he sits and listens to each of them, we're on to the next fight. With this many songs, it may make sense to extend the time between fights or even to go to a different voting system, which would allow you to rate the songs you have listened to instead of voting for "the best." I don't think most people want to listen to 30 songs with one title and keep notes about which ones they like so they can cast that vote. Most people people would probably rather say "I like this one" and "I don't like that one."

Reist, your post kind of highlights the problem, but not in the way you intended. We're not talking about votes that come from active members of the SongFight community. We're talking about everyday people who don't write songs, don't read the boards and don't even know what a fluffy porcupine is coming to the site to listen to songs and vote for their favorite. As Steve pointed out, that's how the vote get into the hundreds. But those people are MIA.

[king_arthur]

I wonder if maybe the level of available stuff on the internet has grown so much that people are spending their time elsewhere. How many people who used to come to songfight! to listen to songs and vote are now spending a lot of time over at youtube? Or on gamer sites or ??? As computers and internet connections get faster, people may be moving to more complex file content than just three minute songs, and as a site, we're competing with whole new levels of content that weren't really available two or three years ago...

Charles (KA)

[jb]

I understand where you're coming from, Charles, but I don't think the Internet is that small anymore that we have to worry about competing with the bug guys that way. There are 427 million English-speaking Internet users. Plenty for everyone to have their share.

It may interest you all to know that according to Google Analytics, songfight.org gets approximately 1000 "absolute" unique visitors per week. That's uniques, as in to the best of Google's ability to distinguish them, 1000 individual souls visit the site during any given week.

[Billy's Little Trip]

That's why I say that SF needs a little promotion for growth. The old saying in business is, if you're not moving forward, you're dying. I know SF isn't a business, which I'll never understand why, but that's not for me to decide. But it is a community that could become extinct if new members don't join as old members disappear.
Although a great bunch of guys, it would be a sad day when the SF community is just Spud, JB, Glen and Niveous.

edit: oh, and Fluffy. He's a lifer. Even after "the big one" hits and everyone is gone, you'll still here the echoes of Fluffy saying, hello? hel...hello? has anyone seen my stapler?

edit 2: Actually, I think I'll be the guy helping Fluf find his stapler.
<< lifer too

[Billy's Little Trip]

It may interest you all to know that according to Google Analytics, songfight.org gets approximately 1000 "absolute" unique visitors per week.

To think, if just half of those people bought a set of guitar stings from your online music store, or from one of your sponsors that pay for ad space.
...or joined for a chance to win a free SF t-shirt for giving the most reviews in a one month period.

[jb]

It may interest you all to know that according to Google Analytics, songfight.org gets approximately 1000 "absolute" unique visitors per week.

To think, if just half of those people bought a set of guitar stings from your online music store, or from one of your sponsors that pay for ad space.
...or joined for a chance to win a free SF t-shirt for giving the most reviews in a one month period.

BLT, we don't have any need for ads on the site and neither of the administrators (well, speaking for myself at least) have an interest in deriving income from it. Honestly, in my opinion retail is too much work.

Ads alone wouldn't bring in much money, they would significantly diminish the integrity of the site, ( a site we consider ourselves to be caretakers of, not owners) and our costs are low enough that I am willing to pay for both the server space and bandwidth used.

I dunno if I can be swayed from this opinion, but you're welcome to try.

JB

[Rabid Garfunkel]

...or joined for a chance to win a free SF t-shirt for giving the most reviews in a one month period.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes, BLT? Or rather, who will review the reviewers?

[Billy's Little Trip]

...or joined for a chance to win a free SF t-shirt for giving the most reviews in a one month period.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes, BLT? Or rather, who will review the reviewers?

Section Moderators, por supuesto.