wiki plz

Use this forum for title suggestions, bitching at moderators, whining about phpBB, and grand ideas that will solve all of Song Fight's problems.
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Manhattan Glutton
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Re: wiki plz

Post by Manhattan Glutton »

Lunkhead wrote:I think only something like <80 artists out of the >2600 have it, most of it is >4-5 years old, and none of it is <~2 years old.
Indeed - Category:Artists with photos. 75, and two or three have added images since the wiki went up...
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: wiki plz

Post by fluffy »

So hey, I finally fixed the way that artist names are mapped to keys, and made a few other quick fixes to artistpage.php, so now weird-ass names should have valid and hopefully-unique keys.

A lot of keys will have changed, especially for people with goofy punctuation and whatever, but hopefully this is at least a bit more robust.

This still doesn't fix the problem of case mismatches clobbering each other in the archive, but I'll have to chew on it a while to figure out a fix (the code is "a bit unclean," to put it mildly).

Well, I could just have the keys preserve case (which seems to work fine) but that ends up changing pretty much everyone's keys (and treats case differences as different band names), so it's probably not such a great idea.
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Re: wiki plz

Post by fluffy »

Ooh, actually, I think I just fixed it. It also has the convenient side-effect of making it so that if two artists' keys do end up colliding, their archives will be merged instead of the last one clobbering the first. I think.
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Re: wiki plz

Post by Lunkhead »

Interesting. So now will the artist name to key mapping produce a unique key for an artist name? I mean, no more "?" maps to "" and so does "??" for example? Do you have an idea of how many artist page URLs that's affected? Changing URLs seems a little problematic, as it might take Google a while to update the URLs it returns in search results. Plus people might have linked to the old URLs. Probably not a big deal for the artists whose names were causing problems anyway, but might be a big deal if it affected a large swath of the artists, and/or popular artists whose pages may be linked to a lot out there. I was going to suggest earlier switching to just using the full artist name in the URL (like I do) but then I thought about how that would break all the artist page links and how setting up redirects from all the old URLs to all the new URLs would really suck...
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Re: wiki plz

Post by fluffy »

Well, another thing I did was made it so that you can use the plain artist name in the URL, like:

http://songfight.org/artistpage.php?key=Jon%20Eric

will map internally to the same key.

The only cases that should have changed in a non-compatible way are cases with punctuation, and those were already going to be badly broken in some way anyway. There were a lot of ad-hoc and incomplete rules that I could preserve, but I was more interested in fixing major bugs for the site itself than worrying about the rare incoming link to this asshole or whatever.

Oh, also, ?? and ? are now different keys, as one becomes _3F_3F and the other is _3F.

Basically here's the artist name to key mapping now:

Code: Select all

function($aname) {
  $aKey = strtolower($aName);

  # strip a leading "a" or "the" as a word
  $aKey = preg_replace('/^(a|the) /','',$aKey);
  # convert spaces to underscores
  $aKey = str_replace(' ','_',$aKey);
  # convert non-ASCII characters to %xx
  $aKey = urlencode($aKey);
  # convert all runs of non-allowed characters into a single _
  $aKey = preg_replace('/[^a-zA-Z0-9\-]+/','_',$aKey);

  return $aKey;
}
It's a bit simpler than the code that was there before, and should also be a bit more robust.
Last edited by fluffy on Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: wiki plz

Post by Lunkhead »

That all sounds pretty good.

PS Sadly my eyes have already been burned by looking at the code that was there before, but thanks for trying to protect me. ;)
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Re: wiki plz

Post by Manhattan Glutton »

These wiki shenanigans were well worth the effort just to motivate someone to improve the songfight.org code, even by a little bit.
I consider my work here done, folks.
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: wiki plz

Post by Lunkhead »

MG, my jukebox also exports m3u files for artists, if you add .m3u to the artist URL:

http://sfjukebox.org/artists/X%3Csub%3E0%3C/sub%3E
http://sfjukebox.org/artists/X%3Csub%3E0%3C/sub%3E.m3u

If you wanted to link to those using the URL encoded full artist names, that would be fine with me, and might work better for the stinkers with funky characters in their names than trying to use the .m3u files off songfight.org.
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Re: wiki plz

Post by fluffy »

Oh, dang, I just realized the problem with Juiceharp and such - I was overcorrecting perfectly-valid keys on artistpage.php. Should be fixed shortly.
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Re: wiki plz

Post by jast »

Hey, I hear some people have discovered that they can use large fonts. Good for you guys!
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Re: wiki plz

Post by jb »

A while ago I took a stab at creating a schema for a DB that would serve not only Song Fight, but Cover Fight, Nur Ein, and any other entity that wanted to do the traditional "song fight" thing. It's never been implemented, but here it is:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreads ... utput=html

I am not a professional database administrator or designer, so this design is not in any standard database design format, just a spreadsheet. A pair of spreadsheet rows defines a table, with the name of the table on top. Foreign keys are colored according to the table they come from. I did that to make sure I was linking everything correctly.

If I remember correctly, this is compliant with at least the second normal form (I didn't evaluate it against the third).

I am releasing this into the public domain! Use as you please.

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Re: wiki plz

Post by king_arthur »

My two cents:

- a wiki seems like it makes sense because for what we're doing here, most of the knowledge we would like to capture is among the participants, and emailing that to somebody for them to post to the wiki is a lot of extra work. If you want some control over what actually shows up in the wiki, have a moderator.

- I am confused about why the "artists with pictures" page is where the links to songs, fights, etc. is... does that mean that unless (entity) has submitted a picture, there won't be links to their songs?

- we have wiki members, songfight members and songfight artists (who may be solos or bands or pseudo-bands). Because I'm "king_arthur" in all three places, it's confusing. I can see why the links scraped from the SF archive need to go with the songfight artists... but my suggestion would be: every WIKI MEMBER has a page where they can create their bio, add pictures, etc. Songfight members (i.e., "nyjm" as opposed to sf artist "noah mclaughlin"), I'm not sure there's any reason to have pages for them. SONGFIGHT ARTIST pages should be the stuff from the SF archive (links, etc.) and those pages should somehow be off-limits to editing by the members so that the wiki scripts can just slam new files down following each fight, and this should either be enforced (by making them non-editable) or at least there should be a little warning at the top of each of those pages, "automatically updated, do not edit"

- on the SF ARTIST pages, there should be wiki pages for each song the artist has submitted, and those wiki pages (like "Hello My Old Heart (King Arthur song)" should be editable and not get wiped out by the auto updates. So the stuff I entered into my page for my song for that title will be as permanent as anything on the internet ever is.

- it would be nice if every SONGFIGHT ARTIST page did have backlinks to the WIKI MEMBERS who participated in those songs - i.e., the on "billy's little trip" page that is autoerotically updated every time new fight results are posted, there would be a way for the WIKI MEMBER aka "billy's little trip" to indicate that the ARTIST page should include a link back to the MEMBER page - would have to be done by some sort of database thing so that it gets refreshed when the links table gets refreshed.

So, basically, in order to have a page about you the person in the wiki, you would have to become a wiki member, and your wiki member name may or may not bear any relation to your identities on SF. But whether you become a wiki member or not, the artist page with all the song links (and your picture, if you've posted one) would be created from the SF archives.

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Re: wiki plz

Post by Manhattan Glutton »

KA-
The "Artists with photos" category is just a category that is auto-generated by the ArtistInfobox template. If you have a photo, you're put into that category automatically. If you don't have a photo, you still have an artist page, it's just not listed there.

Your song notes pages are permanent, although we need some more templates and formal standards for that. Particularly because it doesn't link back to the artist page.

Your wiki user page is User:King arthur. I don't think that's necessarily an appropriate place to document everything, though. Like I said, I'm going to snatch up the page 'My Real Name' and link to the auto-imported stuff. If you're like fluffy and you don't want to use your real name, well, just use King Arthur and remove the redirect to King Arthur (artist).

I don't plan on auto-importing any more stuff except new fights. At some point that'll be automatic. I like being able to add to the auto-imported stuff - like fluffy marked songs as "Song Fight live titles".
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: wiki plz

Post by Lunkhead »

I think it would be nice to define some kind of a purpose for the wiki before people spend a lot of man hours entering data into it.

It sounds to me like what people are talking about is for the wiki to be a community annotated copy of the songfight.org archive data. The imported data would be there unmodified along with community managed metadata about the imported data. Then there would be other stuff not necessarily related to the archive data, like general Song Fight! info, info about events, songwriting info, recording info, etc.
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Re: wiki plz

Post by Paco Del Stinko »

I've been listening to each of my songs, chronologically, and adding a line or two of notes as a start. Thanks, peoples, for putting this together. I think its a good thing.
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Re: wiki plz

Post by roymond »

Seems the basic use cases of the wiki/database should be outlined. Here's a quick cut. What else is meant to be achieved (to Fluffy's point)?

1. Learn about an artist/band
2. Learn about fights
3. Playing songs during the process
4. Search across all data


1. Learning about an artist / band
  • a. User queries the wiki or clicks on artist name in the Jukebox
    b. Wiki artist page is presented
    c. User can view artist photo, bio, aliases, and associated artists / bands
    d. Song related:
    • i. List of fights entered by artist
      ii. List of fights contributed to by artist, but entered by another
2. Learning about fights
  • a. User queries the wiki
    b. What is there to learn about fights in the wiki that isn’t in the jukebox?
    c. Should this simply launch the Jukebox?
3. Playing songs
  • a. Songs are “playable” wherever they appear in the wiki (local player embedded in the wiki?)
    b. Lists are “playable” wherever they appear in the wiki (link launches playlist in Jukebox)
    • i. Artist fights
      ii. Artist contributing fights (where the artist contributed musically to an entry by another artist)
      iii. Master artist fight list (all entries or contributions as the artist or alias, as a member of a band, etc.)
      iv. Pandora-like radio stations based on 450 unique characteristics of any given jumping off point (get busy Glenn and Niveous!)
4. Search across all wiki data
  • a. Users enters artist name, fight, band name, alias, date, lyric, etc.
    b. Wiki displays all matching results, organized by data type
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Re: wiki plz

Post by Lunkhead »

fluffy wrote:Basically here's the artist name to key mapping now:

Code: Select all

...
Hm, I'm wondering if this change has had some unintended side effects. Shouldn't "A Kid Named Ace" have a profile?

http://www.songfight.org/artistpage.php ... _named_ace

Ditto for "C. Layne", and he should also have a profile photo:

http://www.songfight.org/artistpage.php?key=c_layne

Basically the old artist keys for those and possibly other artists were being used to tie together the artist pages with the profile photos and data files, and now those connections are broken for some people.
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Re: wiki plz

Post by fluffy »

Oops, yeah, that's a problem. The old makeKey function would have made "a kid named ace" not work but there's probably a few things that got screwed up by the makeKey change. I'll see what I can do about that via the magic of scripting.
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Re: wiki plz

Post by king_arthur »

re: Roymond's list above, I'd add:

5. learn about individual songs

...like the page I wrote about "Hello My Old Heart." Was there a story behind the song, what inspiration(s) were there (for instance, my "Bag of Bones" lyric included a tip o' the hat to Randy Newman's "It's Money that Matters." One of my songs - "A Tear" maybe? - included sounds from a corrugaphone I built). If people have scans of their handwritten originals for some of their songs, I think that would be cool to see, too...

And then the other thing I asked about was the possibility of being able to post - within reason - some songs I wrote for songfight but didn't submit. I don't know if we'd be able to add notes about them to the actual fights - kinda depends on how destructive the auto-updates are going to be - but it would be cool if I could add a note to "Stand In the Circle" that "King Arthur wrote a song for this fight but did not submit it" with a link to a "Stand In the Circle (song by King Arthur)" page that I'd just create manually, that I could upload my MP3 file to.

And, uhh, while we're thinking of stuff, would there be interest in trying to extract info from the Hxaro archive and include that, too? For example, the "Dinga Da Donga" fight could have a note that "King Arthur recorded this cover of Abominominous' song." with a link to the .mp3 file in the hxaro archive.

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Re: wiki plz

Post by Lunkhead »

There isn't anything stopping folks from hosting an mp3 somewhere else and then linking to it, from an existing or new page, right? There could be a page "Romantic Cheapskate (Lunkhead song)" for example even though I didn't actually submit that song, and I could put an mp3 link and description on there.
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Re: wiki plz

Post by king_arthur »

Yeah, I know (self hosting). Except then eventually the person takes the song off and it's no longer available and the link is broken. And MG said that he thought there was unlimited file storage for the wiki, so this seemed like a good way to use some of that.

It's kinda like the hxaro archive (which I need to update one of these days). How many of those covers would have disappeared if we hadn't archived them on the SF site?

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Re: wiki plz

Post by Manhattan Glutton »

I turned on MP3 uploads. I think. It will stay that way until people abuse it or my hosting provider kills me.
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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