wiki plz

Use this forum for title suggestions, bitching at moderators, whining about phpBB, and grand ideas that will solve all of Song Fight's problems.

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Re: wiki plz

Postby roymond » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:53 am

Oh crap. This looks useful. Now we have to go back and edit all the bad things said about the project :)

Nice job!
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Re: wiki plz

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:11 am

You're cool, Roy. You convinced me to just go do it.

But I have to go vandalize Jon's page now. :twisted:

just kidding
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: wiki plz

Postby fluffy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:27 am

So is there a mechanism for producing a collection of related artists under a single meta-artist? Sockpuppet only began a few years ago but I've been entering under a lot of different band names since pretty much the beginning of SongFight. If there's going to be so much obsessive information collected in one spot it had might as well tell the whole story.

Ideally ithere could be pages for individual fighters which list their bands and automatically get the graph showing all of their entries, with both the title and the band name or something.
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Re: wiki plz

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:31 am

Draft a proposal that won't ruin my life.
I already aliased artists, so I wouldn't mind... just doing that and re-importing your stats. But it sounds like you want something more special.

You might just have to create a new page and combine the stuff yourself and make the links. ;)

Another alternative I was mulling was to put the data points in a template so that the above would be more convenient.
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: wiki plz

Postby fluffy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:39 am

Yeah, this is a bit different than aliasing. The different band names we're a reflection of diffent phases in my musical philosohy and shouldn't simply be combined together under a single roof. Also it would be helpful for tracking collabs and spinoff groups and whatever. Not to mention how for a while I was in octothoroe but i shouldn't be listed as being a part of all their songs.

Maybe having a "fighter" page where people can just list their entries (title and band name), perhaps with the role they played as well. It doesnt really need to have the graph anyway. Frankly I think that's kind of goofy and doesn't really scale well for pee who have had lots and lots of entries.

Oh and then if the band pages could auto-link back to the fighters that list them under a "participants" section (which maybe lists the titles they participated in or something).

I could do a manual mockup of this on a couple of my collabs when i get home.
Last edited by fluffy on Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: wiki plz

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:40 am

I like the timeline. It just needs a little work to look better.

I like knowing who went on a hiatus.

It sounds like what you want can't be a system change, so I'll defer to The Power Of Collaborative Editing to solve this problem.
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: wiki plz

Postby fluffy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:42 am

Maybe if time were on the vertical axis it would work better.
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Re: wiki plz

Postby fluffy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:44 am

Oh, what happens if someone edits a page and then you re-import? Or is the auto-imported data store in a clearly-delineated part of the entry source? I havent looked at your page markup yet.
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Re: wiki plz

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:44 am

http://sfbase.net/wiki/index.php?title= ... ction=edit

Feel free to grab the source and play with it on your User:fluffy page until it looks good. ;)
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Re: wiki plz

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:46 am

fluffy wrote:Oh, what happens if someone edits a page and then you re-import? Or is the auto-imported data store in a clearly-delineated part of the entry source?


Kind of. I haven't worked it all out in my head yet.

I was thinking of intelligently automating adding fight data and leaving the rest - it's mostly delineated easily (for now).

I don't think another full-blown (description/location/image) artist import is necessary. Anyone who submits data to fightmaster can also edit the wiki.
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: wiki plz

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:51 am

For your meta-artist inquiry, I think the proper course of action may be to just create a page with your Real Name and add to it what you want.
I plan on making "Mike Kasianowicz" some day and listing all of my endeavors.

You'll notice the artist pages all have (artist) appended to them, and all the default pages redirect to them, but if your real name conflicts, you can take it over. (Obviously, this comment is directed at Fluffy. His mother was a hippie.)

We're all famous on our own wiki.
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: wiki plz

Postby HeuristicsInc » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:07 am

Manhattan Glutton wrote:because you have to fix all the mean things people wrote about you.


i guess you're right. my work web filter says it has Potentially Damaging Content.
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Re: wiki plz

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:14 am

I guess it's all those penis photos I put up.

On a serious note, is there anything I can do to help it get unblocked (besides take the penises off)?
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: wiki plz

Postby fluffy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:24 am

Don't worry about HeuristicsInc's work filter. It blocks EVERYTHING.
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Re: wiki plz

Postby king_arthur » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:57 am

I added some notes to one of my song entries:

http://sfbase.net/wiki/Hello_My_Old_Hea ... ur_song%29

I'm actually going to be going through the KA catalog and making notes for my own purposes, so this is a cool excuse to work on that at the same time. I guess I'll assume that this stuff could all get wiped out at any moment and keep copies for myself.

What's your file upload disk space situation like? Would you be willing to consider letting artists upload a few songs that they did for SF but didn't submit (not ready in time, didn't like it at the time, etc.?)

Oh, yeah - if I go to my "King Arthur With Pictuers" page (the one that has all the links to entries) and add some content of my own, is that going to get wiped out when you update for the next fight? If there are certain pages that are going to be automatically updated, it might be nice to put a little note at the top, "this page is created automatically, please do not add updates here." Or make it uneditable by members or something.

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Re: wiki plz

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:01 am

Supposedly I have "unlimited" space, so go hog wild. The only thing I ask is that you keep things organized and explicit. Long article names, long file names. Pretty much wikipedia rules.

I don't plan on going anywhere, but I'll make data exports available.
If I had a dollar for every one of my songs j$ has called a 90s pastiche, I'd have $1 for every song I've written.

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Re: wiki plz

Postby king_arthur » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:10 am

Okay, you may have to do something to allow us to upload .mp3 files, I think right now it only allows .gif and .jpg and a couple other image formats.

The scanned in song original pages I added I just uploaded as HMOH-1.jpg and HMOH-2.jpg. I guess I should have done king_arthur_HOMH-1.jpg or something? Do all the images wind up in a common pool or are my images kept separate from everyone else's? I can prefix anything I upload with "king_arthur_" if that helps...

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Re: wiki plz

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:25 am

Yeah, they all end up in a common pool, unfortunately, so we all need to play nice. :) I'll look into the MP3 thing.
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Re: wiki plz

Postby fluffy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:48 am

I think the biggest possible issue right now with what I want to do is terminology; right now all of the bands are called "artists" (I realize that's the case in the SF archive itself too) but really it seems like we should have "artists" being individual people and "bands" being the groups of one or more artists.

Or maybe we can keep it how it is (to be consistent with the site) and have individuals be called "participants" or "members" or something.

So for example, in my situation I (fluffy) am a participant who has entered as or been a part of songs by (as a partial list)
  • fluffy porcupine
  • Sockpuppet
  • entropic pincushion
  • Frontalittle Squad
  • Octothorpe
  • So<kpupp3t
and so on. It seems like there would be a lot of space to add structured data into a database that would allow all sorts of useful pivoting. For example, with this quasi-schema:

// stuff about artists/bands
BAND - name, website, bio, picture
PARTICIPANT - name, website, bio, picture
BAND_MEMBER - BAND_id, PARTICIPANT_id, date_from, date_to // for non-guest members of the band

// stuff about entries
FIGHT - name, date_from, date_to, result_blurb
FIGHT_ENTRY - FIGHT_id, BAND_id, vote_count, winner_flag

// stuff about individual contributions to entries
ENTRY_PARTICIPANT - FIGHT_ENTRY_id, PARTICIPANT_id, role

It seems like that sort of structured data is what we really want for an informational archive, and if we could embed that into the wiki (via custom plugins or the like), all the better.
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Re: wiki plz

Postby Generic » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:12 pm

fluffy wrote:I think the biggest possible issue right now with what I want to do is terminology; right now all of the bands are called "artists" (I realize that's the case in the SF archive itself too) but really it seems like we should have "artists" being individual people and "bands" being the groups of one or more artists.

Or maybe we can keep it how it is (to be consistent with the site) and have individuals be called "participants" or "members" or something.


This is a purely semantic issue that plagues any music sorting system. Most systems that store a whole bunch of people who make music are going to require one catch-all table name for all the entered data points. If you say "artists" it will misleadingly imply that there are no bands; if you say "bands" it will misleadingly imply that there are no solo artists. You could cop out and use terms such as "entrants" or "participants," but these sound too clinical. It's up to the taste of whoever designs the database, pretty much.

Beyond that you can set up different search keys specificall for solo artists and individual members of bands (no bands), and another for bands (no individual artists or members), for ease of reference.
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Re: wiki plz

Postby fluffy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:50 pm

Ooh, thought of another table that would be useful for normalization/pivoting:

BAND_ALTER_EGO - BAND_id, other_BAND_id

(This entire schema so far is just intended for people who know how normalized databases work. I could make some examples though.)
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Re: wiki plz

Postby fluffy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:54 pm

No listing for <3? Not even in the individual fight pages? :(

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