What would you rather have?

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What would you rather have?

World peace
10
38%
A million bucks
16
62%
 
Total votes: 26
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erik
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby erik » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:00 pm

I'd take the money. I don't understand people who would turn down a crapload of money (which they could use to help people they know and have met) in favor of world peace, which would benefit people they've never met.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby PlainSongs » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:35 pm

Are those people you know particularly great? Perhaps there's a country in the world where everyone is twelve times as cool as the coolest of your friends, and you just don't know, and tomorrow they (and others) get bombed because you chose not to pick world peace, while your so-so pals can eat more cake or something. Pff.

More probably, the people you know are on average not too different in coolness than a random sample of people. What makes it so special that you happen to know them? You're not the measure of everything. Even if most people have the intuition that they are just that, like that dumb bacterium messing with a really cool dude because it's got no clue.

The one 'good' (or rather, sensible) argument for a grab-all attitude is that others have it. Fight or die, you know. But look here - this poll "magically" gives you the opportunity to better the lives of many many millions, including even your friends and yourself, for free - and still you think just of your home turf?

You might have had a point in that you'd have some control over how the money is used, so it's not spent in a lousy way. But the choice is not between "cash $1mio" or "let some peacenik organisation cash $1mio and twiddle your thumbs hoping they're not gonna build paper airplanes with it". It's between the former and 'instant world peace', kids. Man, that should be a no-brainer. Clearly isn't.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Rone Rivendale » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:49 pm

Yeah wtf, you people are damn selfish.

Let's see, get a million dollars to benifit only yourself.... or help every f'ing person in the world.

Gee, I wonder which is better......
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Spud » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:47 pm

Your original poll question doesn't mention any of this painless magic that you have now retroactively inserted into it.

Without it, how would this World Peace be achieved?

One goal of and so-called World Peace would be that no group would want to eliminate any other group. But there are groups right now who will not rest until some other group is gone. I'm including us so-called Democratic nations on both sides of that equation. And since there has not been World Peace since humans took over the planet, It would require someone really powerful to enforce this World Peace, probably through military means. For this to happen pretty much instantaneously, as in the granting of a wish, there would be no time for negotiations or other diplomatic solution. It would pretty much take nuclear weapons.

We have the bombs. Let's do it! Before they do.

On second though, just give me the million bucks. I'll do what I can. Maybe buy a couple of ads, put on a concert. Oops. Out of money. Sorry.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby PlainSongs » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:43 am

Spud, I think you're addressing me, though I didn't put up the poll.

I assume a hidden trick to get to world peace (or $1mio for that matter) because of how the question is put: "What would you rather have? A or B?". That doesn't give you any information on how A or B are obtained, but to me it implies that they are there for the taking. If you ask "how would this world peace be achieved" I may as well ask "how is a Songfight! poll actually going to give me a million dollars?". Having either are hypothetical conditions. It would be different if the question had been "what would you rather see we try to implement, A or B?". Then if the credentials of these 'we' suck, I might go for the money too.

That's just my interpretation of the question, though I think it's a sober one.

As said, my issue is with interpreting the question 'my' way, and then making, to speak with Rone, the damn selfish choice. I agree with you that getting to world peace by non-magic means is virtually impossible (now?) due to enforcement and other issues. But it's a very different thing to even reject the dream.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby slats » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:17 am

These are like two of the three things you might request of the genie that just emerged from a lamp you hadn't previously realized was magic. The million bucks is pretty straightforward. I'd probably ask for it after taxes, but still it is what it is: a nice big lump of cash in my pocket.

The world peace request would probably get that genie working in his devious best. What would be the new outlet for hatred and greed? Is world peace humanly possible, or is it only possible thru the extinction of the human race?

Too many unknowns and loose ends attached to that world peace. I'll take the cash and take a more proactive role in recycling.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby ujnhunter » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:56 am

Money money money...
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Rabid Garfunkel » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:28 am

Can't trust genies... can't trust them at all. They fuck with you.

It'd pro'lly kill off every last representative of the entire human race, rub its hands together and then say (to no one at all) "There you go... world peace."

So in lieu of a well-intentioned, yet awkward, genocide, I'll take the cash, please.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Hoblit » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:59 am

slats wrote:These are like two of the three things you might request of the genie that just emerged from a lamp you hadn't previously realized was magic. The million bucks is pretty straightforward. I'd probably ask for it after taxes, but still it is what it is: a nice big lump of cash in my pocket.

The world peace request would probably get that genie working in his devious best. What would be the new outlet for hatred and greed? Is world peace humanly possible, or is it only possible thru the extinction of the human race?

Too many unknowns and loose ends attached to that world peace. I'll take the cash and take a more proactive role in recycling.


EXACTLY.

(but for the record...a genie might kill of your father for the one million dollar inheritance.)

I'm with Spud on all of the poll defining coming after the fact and that we can't be expected to interpret it to anyone's particular standard.

*Take the money and run.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Billy's Little Trip » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:21 am

Great argument Slats. And yes Rabz, those darn genies are so damn literal.
But from plain songs magical possibility of world peace, all humans would change instantly to always smiling zombies that talk like robots. Of course, nothing would get accomplished.
Example:
Human A: Oh excuse me, you go first
Human B: No no, you go first
Human A: No I insist, you first
Human B: You were here first
Human A: Wunna go to Uranus?
Human B: Sorry, I don't have any money
Human A: Me either
Human B: I'd give you all my money if I had some
Human A: I'd give you half back so we both had some
Human B: We would both have equal amounts of money
Human A: Then we can go to Uranus? Image
Human B: Are you gay? Image
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Spud » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:05 pm

It's a trick question. A million dollars is possible. World Peace is not.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Billy's Little Trip » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:15 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:I'd take the world peace


....but only on the condition that it doesn't apply to fucking Belgians.

:lol: How did I miss this one?
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Hoblit » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:40 pm

Spud wrote:It's a trick question. A million dollars is possible. World Peace is not.

Hoblit wrote:I interpreted the poll to offer me two things. One completely unrealistic and another a long shot possibility. Therefore *I ASSUME* its a trick and I'm going for what is tangible.

We're definitely on the same page for this one.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Teplin » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:48 pm

Billy's Little Trip wrote:But from plain songs magical possibility of world peace, all humans would change instantly to always smiling zombies that talk like robots. Of course, nothing would get accomplished.


I have to disagree. There are many ways an all powerful magic could archive world peace that doesn't involve turning people into smiling zombie robots (ooooh, cool band name!).

You could go the purely physical route that doesn't involve changing people's minds at all. Make it so that if a person tries to use any sort of weapon against another person, the weapon instantly crumbles into dust. If a person tries to hurt another person with their body, their muscles go completely slack for 5 minutes and they fall to the ground while crapping themselves. People would soon stop trying to make war because it would be futile (and pretty embarrassing).

Or you could make a change in people's minds in a small, specific way, without completely erasing their free will. Give everybody a phobia. Lots of people have phobias, and they're able to live their lives normally except when it comes to the thing their phobia is about. Someone close to me has a pretty bad bee phobia. So, this would be a severe, incurable phobia about making war. No soldier can fight when he's having a crippling panic attack. No leader can order an air strike when he's shaking and weeping uncontrollably. Factory workers wouldn't even be able to assemble land mines because of the phobia.

So there's a couple of ways, just off the top of my head. And if you're worried about your genie being devious, don't just say "I want world peace!". Take some time. Weigh the pros and cons of each method of achieving world peace. That genie can't be free until you actually make your wish, so time is on your side. Have it drawn up as a legal contract, and have an army of lawyers go over it, plugging the loopholes. Then, when you're absolutely satisfied with it, tell the genie "I wish for world peace, as specified by the terms of this contract."

Pssshh, taking the million bucks is just lazy. Once word gets out that you are the one who made world peace happen, the world is your oyster. :wink:
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Hoblit » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:02 pm

What about cannibals? Whats world peace to them?
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Billy's Little Trip » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:55 pm

Hoblit wrote:What about cannibals? Whats world peace to them?

You've never heard of smiling cannibals? Image
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby PlainSongs » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:00 pm

To me a lot of people here are taking the poll question in a odd way, and expressing legitimate concerns with a shot of cynicism about the attainability and meaning of world peace. If it was a trick question then fine, but not sure everyone takes it that way.

As I won't repeat again, my concern was with choosing money over world peace given that you can obtain either 'for free'.

But sure why not discuss why or why not world peace can or even should be obtained.

Hoblit wrote:What about cannibals? Whats world peace to them?

Yeah they don't fit into world peace. Like assault rifles I suppose. To get world peace a lot of people's minds would have to be different. That may smell of oppression - and not saying that's not an issue - but a dude who is trying to bloody eat me (you, them) is oppressing me (you, them).

I don't consider world peace to be about everybody being super chummy and gooey, flowers in your hair. Neutral will do. On a practical level it's about not getting a bullet in your knee if you don't want to, and not having your baby die of dysentery because a doctor couldn't get through the war zone. On a philisophical level it's about being able to mind your own business if that's what you want, in other words about freedom.

Off the internet for a couple of days now so that'll be me for a bit.

peace ;-)
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Teplin » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:25 pm

Hoblit wrote:What about cannibals? Whats world peace to them?


Well, they can still eat people. They'd just find themselves unable (for whichever magical reason) to stab somebody with a spear to get the meat. So their religion and culture would have to adapt. They'd either stop eating people, or only eat people who died of natural causes.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby erik » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:11 pm

PlainSongs wrote:Are those people you know particularly great? Perhaps there's a country in the world where everyone is twelve times as cool as the coolest of your friends, and you just don't know, and tomorrow they (and others) get bombed because you chose not to pick world peace, while your so-so pals can eat more cake or something. Pff.


The people that I know are particularly great. I don't give a fuck how "cool" people are that I've never met. If all you would do with $1,000,000 is eat cake, that's really really sad. There are people that need to go to college. Or get out of debt. Or like a bajillion other good things that people need money for.

PlainSongs wrote:More probably, the people you know are on average not too different in coolness than a random sample of people. What makes it so special that you happen to know them? You're not the measure of everything. Even if most people have the intuition that they are just that, like that dumb bacterium messing with a really cool dude because it's got no clue.


I'm not trying to be the measure of everything. I'm not saying "If you had $1,000,000 you should give it to me and my friends". I'm saying that I'd spend that money on my friends because I know and like them. Not that they're "cool" or some crap.

PlainSongs wrote:The one 'good' (or rather, sensible) argument for a grab-all attitude is that others have it. Fight or die, you know. But look here - this poll "magically" gives you the opportunity to better the lives of many many millions, including even your friends and yourself, for free - and still you think just of your home turf?


I don't know where you think I live, but it's not some war torn part of the world. There's all kinds of people killing other people going on right now, and my life is totally unafffected by it. Choosing "world peace" will not affect anyone that I know in a real way. No, really.

PlainSongs wrote:You might have had a point in that you'd have some control over how the money is used, so it's not spent in a lousy way. But the choice is not between "cash $1mio" or "let some peacenik organisation cash $1mio and twiddle your thumbs hoping they're not gonna build paper airplanes with it". It's between the former and 'instant world peace', kids. Man, that should be a no-brainer. Clearly isn't.


It should be a no brainer. The money.

As long as we're placing caveats that don't exist in the original question, here's mine: If I get $1,000,000 it's understood that I get that money, but then when I spend it, it's gone. I say it's the same thing with world peace: that a wish for "world peace" is not a wish for "eternal world peace", but a resetting of the way things currently are that will most certainly be upset at some point in the future. World peace is not a sustainable idealogy. After you wish for it, someone with a bad attitude and a board with a nail in it is going to come along and fuck it all up.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Billy's Little Trip » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:27 pm

erik wrote:World peace is not a sustainable idealogy. After you wish for it, someone with a bad attitude and a board with a nail in it is going to come along and fuck it all up.

Which I was trying to illustrate with my "human A and human B" skit above. But instead of a board with a nail in it, it's someone that wants to visit Uranus.
.....not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby HeuristicsInc » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:53 pm

Hmm, well, Uranus is a pretty inhospitable place. Freakin' cold... -224C! Winds 560 mph... certainly beats Buffalo's wind chill.
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Re: What would you rather have?

Postby Billy's Little Trip » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:49 pm

HeuristicsInc wrote:Hmm, well, Uranus is a pretty inhospitable place. Freakin' cold... -224C! Winds 560 mph... certainly beats Buffalo's wind chill.
-bill

Wait, I thought Buffalo was Uranus.
...oh wait, never mind, I was thinking about Myanus :P

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