The South.

Fried · Post by **Fried** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:51 am

Hoblit wrote:
Fried wrote:
jack shite wrote:considering your right to express your opinion, maybe it's my opinion that sober may have been right after all.

Now I am tired of this. To think I was expecting an intellegent conversation on SF. My bad.
Well Fried, it's just that the majority of Liberals are so much more intelligent and sophisticated than the majority of right winged nuts that we get so frustrated with the mental gap that we return to our primal instincts and blurt out with the name calling! It's hard to get anything done that way, we know, but if ya'll weren't so gad darned stoopid then we could clearly solve all of america's problems.

Of course, the above statement I made is complete BS. Just as to say that Liberals have no arguments and just name call is complete BS. Both sides are guilty of it. *SMILEY*

The funniest part for me is I am not Republican. I don't have a favorite team. (Since most people don't have a reason they vote one way or another) They have become nothing more than sports teams. My team is the best because they are my team! What I did notice about the two teams was, they each had specific characteristics. Not to say that everyone that vote republican is a right wing gun toting religious fanatic and everyone that voted Democrat was a welfare loving socialist hippy wanabe. But they do tend to attract and embrace those groups. And unfortunately most of the moderates are forgotten.

Fried · Post by **Fried** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:05 am

Leaf wrote:
Fried wrote:And as far as Canadian Medicine is concerned, Why are there so many "Wealthy" Canadians crossing the border to the US for treatment...
...because they can jump lines in the states with their money, and they can't in Canada, as it's first come, first serve for health care... money doesn't influence the situation.

I am glad you are proud of your country and I am sorry I lashed out with that last “German” comment.. But I think you missed my point about the health care. Money influences everything. The common people are on a list for health care. You don't truly think that the Canadian elite have a line for anything. If they didn't have the US to go to, it would be somewhere else. Every country has its "Levels" in society. The only difference is the ability or inability to get to a different one.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:53 am

There are private practice clinics in Canada, and "wealthy" Canadians go there. The difference you are missing is that if I'm in line for surgery, I'M IN LINE. Nobody bumps me out of place. In fact, the only thing that can is a strike, then non-essential services get cut for a week to a month, but otherwise, our health care kicks the US's ass!!! Sorry bout that by the way, but it's the way it is...

Adam! · Post by **Adam!** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:04 am

Here here Leaf! I second that.

I broke my arm in three places once, so I (with no insurance or medical coverage of any kind) walked into the hospital, flashed my SIN card, and walked out with a cast and a cookie. I always take for granted that in the US that would have cost me money. Can anyone hazard a guess how much?

Another great thing is if that wealthy Canadian ahead of you in line opts to go to a private clinic you get to move ahead in the line, as opposed to back. Everybody freakin' wins.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:11 am

You got a cookie????

...Great. Just great. Now the Americans are gonna come here for health care!!!!

...kidding.

Mogosagatai · Post by **Mogosagatai** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:14 pm

Leaf wrote:...but until people like you wake up from your ignorant arrogance, the other 49% suffer.

Careful there... It looks like you're saying republicans are the only ones who are ignorant and arrogant.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:21 pm

user wrote:
Leaf wrote:...but until people like you wake up from your ignorant arrogance, the other 49% suffer.
Careful there... It looks like you're saying republicans are the only ones who are ignorant and arrogant.

That's cause I was saying that.

awaiting pending flame war....

I AM a troublestick....

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:02 pm

Leaf wrote:
user wrote:
Leaf wrote:...but until people like you wake up from your ignorant arrogance, the other 49% suffer.
Careful there... It looks like you're saying republicans are the only ones who are ignorant and arrogant.

That's cause I was saying that.

awaiting pending flame war....

I AM a troublestick....

Which is why my last post was an example of how easy it is now to just lump everyone who agrees more with one side onto that side AS the COMPLETE OPPOSITE from the OTHER SIDE. Each side implicating the other with it's stereotypes and suggesting how stupid one another must be. It illustrates how divided we really are. Where, in the past... there was reasonable expectations of the Left and the Right...but the grey area was worth intelligent argument. NOW, thats changing... and you are almost forced to pick a side. People have joked with me calling me a Republican (which is offensive btw) because I support the war and some of my views on welfare. Of course, there are plenty of other items that clearly place me on the left which makes me Democrat. (I voted Kerry and would have voted for Wesly Clark, or Hillory Clinton.) But it's just the black and whiting of whats really going on. It's hard to have critisism of welfare and support the war and STILL be on the Left...because you have to pick a TEAM these days. It's impossible to see that both sides have some merit and if we could get them to work together (as they had in the past) we could keep a moderate agreement rolling. Instead, we have publically declared a division and it just keeps getting uglier and uglier.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:10 pm

...which is why you need more teams!! EXPANSION!!!

See, with more teams, it ALL get's grey... plus, you can dismiss the quacks (like Bloc Quebecois, the seperatist party) because their effect on YOU is usually minimal, and more regional interests get the spotlight...

Some one here either mentioned or pointed the way to the idea that the US was supposed to be UNITED states, independent states that were united in minimal ways. Interestingly, Canada is supposedly a Federation of provinces and teritorries, however it has been suggested that provinical power far out weighs federal power, effectively making Canada what the US intended, while the US system has become what the Canadian's originally intended!!! Weird....

Sober · Post by **Sober** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:34 pm

http://www.orsm.net/shite/update20041111/rs004.jpg

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:46 pm

the sober irishman wrote:http://www.orsm.net/shite/update20041111/rs004.jpg

....uh...that's pretty....uh....revealing. Damn. I'd hate to live in Mississippi right now...

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:48 pm

IQ tests scores are not good indicators of anything, except how well you will do the next time you take an IQ test. They were never designed to create a spectrum of intelligence, and do a poor job of doing that. They are a fair test of arrogance, inasmuch as the more likely you are to know exactly how many times you have been tested and the results of said tests, the more likely you are to be an annoying bung.*

*This data has been published in The American Journal of Annoying Bungishness and the Atlantis Picayune, though this does not mean it should be taken as fact.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:51 pm

the sober irishman wrote:http://www.orsm.net/shite/update20041111/rs004.jpg

ha ha, cute... I wonder how accurate that REALLY is... otherwise, it's teh funny.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:55 pm

15-16 puzzle wrote:They are a fair test of arrogance, inasmuch as the more likely you are to know exactly how many times you have been tested and the results of said tests, the more likely you are to be an annoying bung.*

*This data has been published in The American Journal of Annoying Bungishness and the Atlantis Picayune, though this does not mean it should be taken as fact.

On the two that I have taken...I have gotten a 133 (on the actual sit down one I took on paper back in highschool) and a 135 on a computer one* five years ago.

*I took it back before the scamming ones began that were actually only 1/4 of a real test and with fixed results so that you could pay them for some service or something when you got all excited when you thought you are all smart and stuff.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:58 pm

Leaf wrote:
user wrote:
Leaf wrote:...but until people like you wake up from your ignorant arrogance, the other 49% suffer.
Careful there... It looks like you're saying republicans are the only ones who are ignorant and arrogant.

That's cause I was saying that.

I tend to think Leaf has a point

I couldn't care less about your domestic politics. I wouldn't know a Republican or a Democrat if I fell over them. All I know is you had a government which has ignored international legal conventions and lied to its people about the reasons it invaded another country.

Why would anyone vote to return that government if not for ignorant arrogance.

(and let me add my normal disclaimer here - that a majority of people of my own country did exactly the same thing and I hold them in even more contempt)

To address User's point though - you're correct, they're not the only ones who are ignorant and arrogant - I could quite easily wear that label too - but for anyone who voted to return the Liberal/Republican governments, here's your "Ignorant and Arrogant" badge - pin it on.

Post by jb » Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:31 pm

I don't think we can claim they are ignorant. The truth has been presented to these people often enough that if ignorance is their excuse it's truly willful ignorance and not ignorance due to circumstance.

And arrogance is fitting for both sides equally, it's not (imo) a proper label for those who chose to vote to keep the current status quo. We of the left were certainly arrogant enough in the run-up to the election. And plenty of us are pretty arrogant about our views being the be-all-and-end-all of how the world should be. Just as dogmatic as some of those on the right. Seeing a conspiracy to oppress someone in every little thing. That's arrogance of a kind as well. So I would personally not use "ignorant and arrogant" to describe those who voted Republican in the most recent election.

Greedy, mean, stupid, scared, selfish, short-sighted, bigoted, narrow-minded, fanatical, and sometimes evil. Those are good adjectives, hard, pointy adjectives. Adjectives which should be aimed and fired more frequently at the idiots who got us into this mess and then LEFT us in it for another four years.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:45 pm

jb wrote: Greedy, mean, stupid, scared, selfish, short-sighted, bigoted, narrow-minded, fanatical, and sometimes evil. Those are good adjectives, hard, pointy adjectives. Adjectives which should be aimed and fired more frequently at the idiots who got us into this mess and then LEFT us in it for another four years.

Good point - but you wont fit "Greedy, mean, stupid, scared, selfish, short-sighted, bigoted, narrow-minded, fanatical, and sometimes evil" on a badge - you'll have to print up T-shirts and hand them out.

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:33 pm

I think if George Bush knew how to play Chess the world might be less troubled.

For that matter all world leaders.

But seriously the arrogance and ignorance thing is not that wrong when considering the split on the political platforms in the States (IMHO). It, unfortunately, is not that disimilar to the idea that we, in the west, really are not that fortunate to understand Islam better than we do. We pass it off as the other side with traditions we can not condone cuz it is foreign to the majority fabric. And paint pictures to the public accordingly. Ah the power of media. Fair enough, some might not dig it, but to condemn the other side from a concept of power, money and greed, without even recognizing that the other side might exist or does not have does start to sound rather elitist and selfish. Gives America a bad name. Notions which are at the core of why I think wars and revolutions start in the first place. Look at Cuba. Understanding the other side and melding might be the first step to our spiritual enlightenment as people on this great earth. To enjoy the world as it is and not as it is not. There's enough to go around if we really made a conscious effort to recognize and secure those things. We'd last a hell of a lot longer. Now that is a hippy thing to say and a fairly democratic thing to say as well, not realistic, mind you, but America the melting pot, remember?! *I said Pot* hee

As far as Kerry not getting in due to this sort of possbly construed blind ignorance and arrogance, which is not the point I'm making, I say boo on those Americans who voted Bush. Mostly for not letting the world know that they could have been a true modicum of the democratic ideal for the rest of the world to see, and force change instead of hiding behind bullets and destruction. That kind of safety net will never last.

In Canada, we rely on our partners to the south just as much as they rely on us. It is a congruent relationship. And believe you me, that as the noose of environmental disaster starts rearing it's ugly head and fresh water starts to go, Canada may become one of the richest countries on the planet and one which America may well rely on. But rich how? Cuz we have a natural resource that no one else has? Sound familiar don't it. Come on. Wars happen, as we all know, but wars can be stopped and personally I think Bush Sr and Bush Jr are nothing but dominant, arrogant, ignorant, selfish pricks with war mongering agendas for personal gain passing that off as some populace need. This is the picture that the Bushs are to me. Presidents that should be forgotten. The cold war is over. Where's the new JFK when you need him? And when environmental disaster happens will America raid Canada, with these lunatics in power, passing us off as some socialist hippy regime just so that they can be richer and have better military position in the world? Or because money talks. Hate to tell you but soon it won't.

It doesn't matter how much they force their foreign policy on other parts of the world, what true political colours are being worn, overthrow dictatorship run countries, for reasons that are murky and unfounded, or help out aiding earthquake victims from a small country. In the end it will be this moment in time where America will be recognized as the antithesis of the foundation that it was founded on. All due to a couple of misguided, misinformed voices. This ofcourse is my personal bent on the topic. Now, I'm going to go print up those T-shirts and buy a bunch of TV-B Gones. Send 'em down to all those punk ass kids in the States. Either that or teach George Bush to play chess, cuz if you guys got to deal with him, we have to deal with him as well. Might as well make the most of it. Naaaa sending those packages instead.

Peace.

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:14 pm

tonetripper wrote:Understanding the other side and melding might be the first step to our spiritual enlightenment as people on this great earth.

We got people we need to understand in this very country without having to look halfway around the world. Understanding is key to getting along (and key to convincing someone to change their mind).

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:46 pm

tonetripper wrote: And believe you me, that as the noose of environmental disaster starts rearing it's ugly head and fresh water starts to go, Canada may become one of the richest countries on the planet and one which America may well rely on. But rich how? Cuz we have a natural resource that no one else has? Sound familiar don't it.

Interesting point you make about Canada's wealth in fresh water - you better keep your eyes out for an invading force from Australia - we've got bugger all of the stuff left. We're running out of water - but we've still got plenty of uranium! (and our 'strong and powerful ally' in the USA - we help out in their wars - I'm sure they'll return the favour).

Mind you - we'll probably invade New Zealand first. They've got plenty of water, and since most of them live in Sydney anyway, no one will really notice. Once we've locked the All Blacks* up at Guantanamo Bay as 'war criminals' - the place will be ours.

(*for the unenlightened - the All Blacks are NZ's annoyingly good rugby team)

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:04 pm

the sober irishman wrote:http://www.orsm.net/shite/update20041111/rs004.jpg

That's a hoax.
http://snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp
-bill

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:13 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:We're running out of water - but we've still got plenty of uranium! (and our 'strong and powerful ally' in the USA - we help out in their wars - I'm sure they'll return the favour).

Well you may have to consult the internet somehow to confirm my misinformation, but I think the going rate is 3 tons of Uranium for six tons of fresh water. However, in twenty-five years or so when half the States is flooded due to global warming, already invaded Canada beating up Australia (who are no match by the way

) in the process and nuclear war is on the decline cuz the world is gonna be all salt water soon anyway. That same three tons might get you a nice 300 ml bottle of fresh water from the beautiful lakes of Ontario. I think you'd be wise to jail up the All Blacks and take your chances with NZ.