HOAs - Good or Bad?

[Spud]

I don't know of any HOAs that don't own SOMETHING in common that they manage. Otherwise, why would anyone join? In many cases, the houses are clustered a little closer than usual, and they own some common buffer land, or a clubhouse, or some such. In the case of my parents' last house, it was essentially a well and a drainfield that they owned in common. Still, they couldn't help themselves and had an architectural review committee, of which my mother was the chairman. God help us. Every time she got something to review, she would show it to me and ask me what I thought, because I'm an architect. I would always ask the same question, "what are your guidelines?", and she would have the same answer, "we don't have any". I would always say that in that case she had no grounds on which to deny anything. She eventually stopped asking me.

SPUD

[fluffy]

Well, for whatever it's worth, this is my parents' neighborhood's HOA. I believe (but am too lazy to confirm) that they own/manage the country club (and golf course), the undeveloped open spaces, and some aspect of the streets as easements. I also know that my parents were only members very briefly in the early 80s when we first moved there, and quit the HOA (without any repercussions aside from withering glares from some neighbors) because of a complete lack of perceived utility.

[fluffy]

Apparently there is a regulation defining what a 'single family house' entails, namely "Single family residence shall be construed to be a family consisting of no persons other than husband, wife and their unmarried children." My mom is very good friends with the lesbian couple down the street. I'm sure the HOA has an absolute fit over them.

[fluffy]

Although the lesbian couple lives in a different covenant, which doesn't specifically define what a 'single family' is, and in that covenant they furthermore DO allow for "servants engaged as such on the premises."

oh wow and they are also prohibited from building a house that's smaller than 2000 square feet. wtf

okay I think any further posts I make to this should be in fdrink

[Caravan Ray]

I don't know of any HOAs that don't own SOMETHING in common that they manage. Otherwise, why would anyone join? In many cases, the houses are clustered a little closer than usual, and they own some common buffer land, or a clubhouse, or some such. In the case of my parents' last house, it was essentially a well and a drainfield that they owned in common. Still, they couldn't help themselves and had an architectural review committee, of which my mother was the chairman. God help us. Every time she got something to review, she would show it to me and ask me what I thought, because I'm an architect. I would always ask the same question, "what are your guidelines?", and she would have the same answer, "we don't have any". I would always say that in that case she had no grounds on which to deny anything. She eventually stopped asking me.

SPUD

How bizarre!

I assume that in the USA, like Australia - planning laws are complicated enough without having little self-appointed "authorities" tossing their two-bobs worth in too!

(Is planning in the USA as convaluted as Aust? In Aust. - Local governments create local planning schemes in accordance with State Government planning legislation - which are assessed by local government, (poorly) coordinated with State Government environmental and resource management authorities - all of which is then sometimes overruled by federal government environmental or infrastucture provision legislation.

I don't know how it works in New Zealand yet. I should be sitting down reading NZ legislation and learning it, instead of wasting time and stuffing about writing nonsense on internet bulletin boards...)

[fluffy]

My understanding is that in the US there is a mixture of the two. A lot of communities are planned by a developer, some of whom have a single "unifying ideal" for it, whereas other neighborhoods are just parcels of land which just get bought up and developed on their own. My parents' neighborhood is a mixture of the two, where the neighborhood as a whole was planned, and some houses (including my parents') were part of an initial overall design, but many of the houses were designed and built much later, so the neighborhood doesn't have a big feeling of bland sameness.

A lot of the newer neighborhoods I've seen are planned to such a ridiculous degree that I feel disoriented and nauseous, because you have one terrible cookie-cutter design repeated a hundred times. Large parts of Daly City (just South of San Francisco) are like that, for example. The houses have no character (and look very cheaply-built as well). They're for cookiecutter people in their cookiecutter lives.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Where I live, Mission Viejo CA. is very cookie cutter. We were originally unincorporated and ran by "the Mission Viejo Company". But we became a City about 10 years ago. I personally have always liked the look of neighborhoods that are clean, organized and beautiful. Even though you only have, like, 6 or 7 different designs per track and like, 6 or 7 shades of brown to choose from, I still like it. I feel very comfortable driving down the street because everything is very organized. I know I probably don't seem like the kind of guy that likes organization, but I am.

Personally, I see places like New York and I can't understand why anyone would live in the City. You have to take subways and taxis everywhere, or walk. My god, I'd kill myself.

[fluffy]

That's something of a nonsequitur.

[Caravan Ray]

You have to take subways and taxis everywhere, or walk. My god, I'd kill myself.

Peak oil is here dude. So if you plan on using the hose on the exhaust pipe method, you better start arranging a loan to make sure you can afford the petrol to finish the job.

[Billy's Little Trip]

You have to take subways and taxis everywhere, or walk. My god, I'd kill myself.

Peak oil is here dude. So if you plan on using the hose on the exhaust pipe method, you better start arranging a loan to make sure you can afford the petrol to finish the job.

This is why I hate electric cars. They don't work like they're supposed to. I sat in mine in the garage tightly closed up for 10 hours until the stupid batteries went dead.


....Fluffy, what have I told you about using big words around me.
And I don't care, I just don't like the thought of living in New York City. I'd rather deal with HOAs than that.

[JonPorobil]

Personally, I see places like New York and I can't understand why anyone would live in the City. You have to take subways and taxis everywhere, or walk. My god, I'd kill myself.

I thought that the walking and public transit was part of the point. NYC has the most extensive and efficient public transit system in the country, and with gas prices where they're at, a daily subway token is cheaper than what my wife pays to commute from Austin to Round Rock by car. A lot cheaper*. Not to mention the burden on the environment. I read in Wired last month that the most fuel-efficient form of transportation is still to this day the elevator. So, you know, the whole vertical expansion thing is where it's at. Woohoo.

Anyway, that was all off-topic anyway. I don't really have anything to add to the HOA discussion, though I found the complimenary viewpoints of BLT and Spud very educational. I just hope that this kind of information sticks with me till I need it; I suspect it will.

*Two subway rides per day, at $2 each, five days a week, equals $20 per week (even cheaper with a Metro Card). Allyson's filling up her tank about once a week, with each fullup costing between $40 and $55, and rising a little each week (it would be even higher if we didn't live so close to the Gulf of Mexico). Plus periodic car maintenance like oil changes &c. YIKES!

[Billy's Little Trip]

You want to hear a HUGE rip off here in So Cali? We have toll roads. They are privately owned roads, not city or state. They are very convenient and much faster to get from point A to point B.
We pay taxes for freeway maintenance and new roads, etc. The only way the Gov could f**k us is to allow them to be owned by private enterprises. Then, I'm guessing, charge the private enterprises to lease the land and tax them, etc.

For me to go from Mission Viejo, where I live, to Orange, where Ross Durand lives, around 20 miles, it's a $10 round trip. Then $4.50 a gallon gas on top of that. We're getting screwed!

[JonPorobil]

And yet you'd rather do that than live somewhere like NYC, or take public transit. We humans are strange machines.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Well, I can choose not to use the toll road, and often do. But when my day is packed with a lot of stops, the convenience is great. It is a right off, but still a rip off.

As far as mass transit and city life, I would rather eat less steak and drink less beer if I needed the extra money to enjoy my comforts. Truth is, I've come to to conclusion that I make as much money as I need to have what I need and nothing more. I honestly believe that someone up there ^ or down there v wants to keep me humble. It doesn't matter how hard or little I work, I end up the same in the end.

[JonPorobil]

Truth is, I've come to to conclusion that I make as much money as I need to have what I need and nothing more.

Sounds a bit more like you make as much money as you need to have the things you need, and some of the things you want (like your car, and the ability to drive down expensive toll roads from time to time).

Jus' sayin', 's all.

[Billy's Little Trip]

That's right. If I didn't have expenses, I'd make less money. The truth is, one of the reasons I stay comfortably in debt is because it keeps me busy, lol, if that makes sense. I'd get lazy if I didn't have debt.

[ken]

wow. That dude's blog is great. I'm impressed with his gumption. $140 seems outrageous for not displaying your permit. What kind of kickback does the HOA get from that?

Ken