PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES

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mkilly
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PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES

Post by mkilly »

Puttin' this thread up for discussion of the presidential debate tomorrow night, September 30th, University of Miami in Coral Gables, FL, starting at 9:00 PM Eastern Time, lasting ninety minutes.

Vice presidential debate: Tuesday, October 5, Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, OH

Second presidential debate: Friday, October 8, Washington University in St. Louis, MO

Third presidential debate: Wednesday, October 13, Arizona State University in Tempe, AZ
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Post by Hoblit »

I like the Daily show's commercial for their next show...something to the effect of:

Issue#1, issue#2, issue#3,

how well will the candidates skirt these issues, watch the daily show for post debate coverage...

*Hoblit snickers

sorry about the paraphrase... but it's hilarious.

I unfortunately may not get to see this debate... some family stuff tonight.
Last edited by Hoblit on Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bolio »

I'm not a big political guy but I'm looking forward to the debates tonight. Who will wear more makeup? Who will try to use the biggest word & eff it up? Can't wait!!
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Post by Leaf »

yeah.. I can't wait to see who's gonna be making all of Canada's foregin (goddamnspellingbullshit) and domestic decisions for the next four years....
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Post by Sober »

Wow. Bush is dumb as fuck.

He's gotta be wearing an earpiece or something.
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Interesting electoral data site

Post by roymond »

<a href="http://www.electoral-vote.com/">very interesting electoral data stuff</a>

and also <a href="http://www.issues2000.org/default.htm">good issues review</a>
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Post by Sober »

That's it. I'm getting registered.
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Post by Sober »

"Saddam himself was a weapon of mass destruction." - Rudolph Juliani

The former mayor of New York actually said this in an interview with Jon Stewart moments ago.

Rudy was making a point that Kerry was unclear about the need to disarm Saddam, and Jon Stewart countered by saying that there was nothing to disarm - there are no weapons of mass destruction. Juliani replied with the above comment.

In one hand, I'm laughing my ass off at this shit. In the other hand, I stop and realize that these people are running my country, and I get really pissed off.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that if Bush gets elected, I'm leaving the country.
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Post by the Jazz »

Giuliani is a douchebag. He comes on the Daily Show and gives the republican party lines about how Kerry didn't have a consistent position and blah blah blah - did he even watch the debate? I mean, you expect each side to say their candidate won, but this was over the top. Why do people forget this man was an asshole before 9/11, he's an asshole after 9/11, but since then he's become so popular? Answer: people are idiots.

All things considered, I'm relieved to live in MA where if someone's going to hassle me about voting for Nader I can just tell them to step off, bitch. Kerry may be better than Bush but that's only because Bush sucks so very much.
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Post by mkilly »

YEAH BITCHES. SAY BUSH HAS THE FUCKIN' ELECTION IN HIS PANTS NOW.

because he DOESN'T. even http://moderaterepublican.atlblogs.com/, The Moderate Republican, called it for Kerry. (as did the democratic newdonkey.com and talkingpointsmemo.com). A lot of Bush's "lead" is because people aren't sure Kerry's good enough, but Kerry was fully competent tonight, and several times, he trumped Bush. Bush often didn't respond to things (i.e. Kerry's note about his dad not going to Iraq). Um... I think Kerry will start getting ahead in the polls next week.[/url]
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Post by jack »

to me, it just seemed that JK seemed more self assured. he had more of an air of leadership about him, and stayed pretty much on topic and issue. W just looked like a stubborn goof, with that deer in the headlights look and that dumb ass smirk. and he sounded like a broken record. stay the course....more of the same....when is this shit finally gonna resonate with people? if bush and company hadn't lied about their true motivation for going to iraq, maybe JK (and many others) wouldn't be accused of vacillating their positions on going to war. do the majority of voters really want 4 more years of this same shit? is this the road we want to be going down for the forseeable future? is it really safer to be an american these days? i'd bet the answer for a majority is a resounding hell no.
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Post by roymond »

jack shite wrote:W just looked like a stubborn goof, with that deer in the headlights look and that dumb ass smirk. and he sounded like a broken record.
This never hurt him before.
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Post by Leaf »

As a Canadian, who watched the debates TWICE and Jon Stewart, let me say this:


Kerry is an intelligent, caring, obviously good man. He seems to care not only about America, but the whole planet. He is the man for the job, and that was obvious to any half-way intelligent person.

Bush is an arrogant, self-centred, stupid little man.

Sadly, I think he dumbs himself down evenmore to appeal to the ignorant masses that I PRAY do not exist... or at least vote.

You guys have a chance to rise to the top again, not through force, but respect. I wish my dad hadn't given up his citizenship, I wish I could renew my American heritage just so I could vote for Kerry cause this man is GENUINE. ... and that may be his downfall.

All you that have not registered to vote: think about this.... if Bush wins again, it will convince him that his methods and ideas are right. He got schooled last night, Kerry had him by the balls. ( I especially liked his little bullet point "I will hunt down the terrorists and kill them", going after the redneck vote!!) My favourite Bush quote of the night" Uh.. can I respond to that , I think that deserves a response?.... uh.......uh.......uh......"


YEah. Way to go Bush you moron.
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Post by Bolio »

Leaf wrote:Sadly, I think he dumbs himself down evenmore to appeal to the ignorant masses that I PRAY do not exist... or at least vote.
Never thought about it that way... but you've got a good point, Leaf.

I'm generally a conservative, but I've never been on the fence as much as I've been this election. One thing I'm sick of hearing is that the way the president speaks has anything to do with the way he can perform. That's stupid 'Michael Moore Mentality' & the world would be better off without it. I'm looking for something deeper with my vote, not if someone is able to answer a question in 5 seconds & what expression is on his face... That being said, can't wait for the next debate where the moderators will branch out a little.
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Post by c hack »

Well I thought it was a great debate. JK was easily the better public speaker, but I could give a shit about that. They both seemed to skirt the issue and go off-topic about the same amount, and they both seemed to have about the same foreign policy (just maybe different ways of going about it). I think the domestic affairs debate will be a lot more interesting, and I hope to see items like the FCC shit and copyright come up, not to mention economics.

At one point, the moderator asked them what the current biggest threat to the US was. They both said WMD (though Kerry called it nuclear proliferation (which W called simply "proliferation," rightfully afraid to say the word "nuclear")), and both said the best way to stop the threat was to take nuclear warheads away from everyone else. I dunno, maybe that's true, but either one of them probably would've got my vote if they'd said "it's a 2-pronged approach -- while securing and destroying as many warheads as possible, we must also make sure to not give terrorists and other nations reasons to hate us so much." Maybe they could've thrown in an analogy about a woman walking down the street in Harlem at 2 in the morning with nothing on but gold and diamond necklaces -- she's in danger no matter how many guns she has to protect herself with. They might've said "my foreign policy is to put both the jewels and the guns away, put some clothes on, and wait till the afternoon to do our business." I could improve the analogy, but you get my drift.

I didn't see anything in the content of what each man said to make me sway either way. Again, well done, and I wish I would've watched the Daily show's coverage of it -- I totally forgot about it. Their coverage of the DNC was frickin hilarious.

Sober, you have such a hate for George Bush that it's clouding your ability to think.
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Post by roymond »

Bolio wrote:One thing I'm sick of hearing is that the way the president speaks has anything to do with the way he can perform. That's stupid 'Michael Moore Mentality' & the world would be better off without it. I'm looking for something deeper with my vote, not if someone is able to answer a question in 5 seconds & what expression is on his face...
Exactly. Actions over words. I try to put aside how I percieve Bush's body language and even his verbal language. It's hard but you gotta look beyond...

I think Kerry scored points with: "Well, you know, when I talked about the $87 billion, I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is worse?"

Kerry supported an $87 billion support plan for the troops that actually accounted for both where the money came from and how it would be tracked. Bush threatened to veto it (by his definition this would mean he was "against" supporting the troops!) so another bill was drafted without democrat members of the appropriations committee, which was essentially an open check that hit the deficit directly and had no accountability attached. Kerry voted against this bill. This was the basis of the poorly phrased "I voted for it before I voted against it" sound bite that Bush likes so much.
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Post by Leaf »

I have to disagree with the idea that you should look past body language and words!!

Actions are a result of the ideas contained in the man's head, not the other way around! How someone communicates those ideas, and the methods used indicate what they are truely thinking.

My biggest problem with American politics is that it's more like following your favourite sports team: If your team drafts or trades for a player you used to hate, suddenly you support him cause he's on your team. There's more to it than that.

There is a saying that 48% of Americans are democrats, and will always vote as such, and 48% are republicans, and will always vote as such, and it's voter turnout and the 4% undecided that rule the day. Basically, once a Yankee fan, always a Yankee fan. I 'm that way with my sports team, the Toronto Maple Leafs. They spend too much money, the players are too old, they never quite manage to pull it off, yet I'm right there rooting for them anyway.

Politics are not sports. People should look at who is communicating for them. Politics means to speak to the people, does it not?

And in response to "I don't care how Bush talked etc, I'm looking at actions? What actions has this man taken that indicate he is concerned with actual safety, health, and the welfare of the human race? America is a leader of the world. It's time all Americans recognized this, and looked past the bullshit self- centred manifest destiny crap and started acting like leaders.

All Bush did was repeat bullet points to discredit his opponent... and display the arrogance and ignorance that will return this planet to the rule of vegetation and insects. I could care less what party they belong to.

My fear is that some paranoid power hungry rich bastard is gonna assasinate Kerry before he can rightly hand Bush his head.


Well, enough ranting... it isn't even my country!!!

Good luck with your elections. Sadly, they effect me as much you!!

VOTE KERRY!!!!!!
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Post by jack »

roymond wrote:
Bolio wrote:One thing I'm sick of hearing is that the way the president speaks has anything to do with the way he can perform. That's stupid 'Michael Moore Mentality' & the world would be better off without it. I'm looking for something deeper with my vote, not if someone is able to answer a question in 5 seconds & what expression is on his face...
Exactly. Actions over words. I try to put aside how I percieve Bush's body language and even his verbal language. It's hard but you gotta look beyond...
i suppose everyone has their own opinion of how important body language and the ability to communicate non-verbally is to effectively get your message across, but one thing is clear to me. The way the president looks and speaks has a very direct impact on his ability to perform. The president is a figurehead of sorts, he represents to the world the most powerful country on earth. and if he is perceived as a dolt by the rest of the world (or you could turn around and say "as a threat"), then the reaction will be predictable. the ability to effectively communicate in a non-verbal manner with the general populace is what seperates "successful" presidents like reagan and clinton from "dismissive" presidents like ford and the family bush.

*edit, it's funny. leaf was typing his as i was typing mine. i love you canucks!
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Post by Lunkhead »

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have someone intelligent, mature, and eloquent representing me to the world than someone incompetent, arrogant, and unintelligible. It's embarrassing, at least to me, that Bush is who people out there think of when they think of America. He doesn't embody the good qualities that people here have. And as Jack said it makes him and his administration less effective.
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Post by Bolio »

Leaf wrote: And in response to "I don't care how Bush talked etc, I'm looking at actions? What actions has this man taken that indicate he is concerned with actual safety, health, and the welfare of the human race? America is a leader of the world. It's time all Americans recognized this, and looked past the bullshit self- centred manifest destiny crap and started acting like leaders.
That's why I'm having so much trouble with this vote. It put me off right away that Bush kept on saying 'Kerry changes his position about invading Iraq' after Kerry explained the conditions for invading weren't what was agreed on. Over & over again. This really pissed me off. The president thinks I'm an idiot. I'll never convert to being a Democrat but I agree who others that say political parties has nothing to do with doing the right thing this election.

Leaf - you are very passionate about everything & I really admire you for it. Just don't bring up the New York Yankees again. BOOO BOOO BOO HISSSSS... & this is the year the Maple Leafs were gonna do it but then STRIKE... hey there's an empty hockey arena down the street here too & I FEEL YOUR PAIN LEAF!!!!!
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Post by jimtyrrell »

Having read the trascripts of the debates this morning, I'm left liking each candidate less than I did before.
Both of them basically engaged in diversionary pandering. When Kerry was asked:

"As president, what would you do, specifically, in addition to or differently to increase the homeland security of the United States than what President Bush is doing?"

he replied with:

"Jim, let me tell you exactly what I'll do. And there are a long list of thing."

He followed this grammatical disaster NOT with an exact detailing of his plans, but with another multi-point attack on the President.

I seriously doubt Bush is going to win me over anytime soon. I wish Kerry would, but he looks to me like more of the same. Nader's got my vote until I hear anything compelling from either of these clowns. Not because Nader thrills me, but because a viable third party might help break through the bowel obstruction that is our current election process.
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Post by jack »

jimtyrrell wrote: I seriously doubt Bush is going to win me over anytime soon. I wish Kerry would, but he looks to me like more of the same. Nader's got my vote until I hear anything compelling from either of these clowns. Not because Nader thrills me, but because a viable third party might help break through the bowel obstruction that is our current election process.
while i respect your motivation, this election is entirely too important to risk four more years of status quo. there is a time and place for breaking down the 2 party system and this november is not the time or place. put your ideology on hold for one day and vote to change the course we are on. it is within our means to effect this change, or the alternative has been stated over and over. status quo. more kids dying for what? so the president doesn't have to admit he made a mistake? W was right to question this in the debate. unfortunately, he made the mess and he has to take responsibility for it. and his mistakes.

his general lack of contrition should prove to the people that he deserves to get the boot. the only way the rest of the world will work together with the US to solve this problem in iraq is by dealing with new leadership. 4 more years will serve to isolate us even further.
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