Nur Ein XII Round Four "A Sense of The Absurd"

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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby j$ » Wed May 17, 2017 10:56 am

Lunkhead wrote:Here is how much each judge was "off" by, compared to the final results ...

You just never know how things are going to play out. Except when Skub is in the round, then Skub wins. :P


Hmm are you just working the average here? I don't see how that shows anything particularly profound, unless you're implying there's some standard baseline, some grand 'objective' quantitative pattern that should develop naturally as the rounds continue that the judges should adhere to? Your reasoning does not take into account a hundred other equally ephemeral and important factors. The judges don't sit around in a smoking lounge, puffing on bubble pipes and discussing their reactions to the songs for hours on end :)

Since we don't do that, Skub winning is based purely on the judges individually coming to the conclusion that Skub's is the best. There's your 'objective' truth :)

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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby Lunkhead » Wed May 17, 2017 10:59 am

With the Skub comment I was just attempting and apparently failing per usual to make a joke (specifically about Skub being tough competition) as I attempted to indicate via the :P emoji. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby Lunkhead » Wed May 17, 2017 11:03 am

Manhattan Glutton wrote:Could you post algorithm used or how to read that grid? Should I put that on the website? :)


All I did was:

- for each judge
-- for each contestant in order of final ranking, worst to best
--- find the absolute value of the difference between the judge's ranking of the contestant and the contestant's final ranking
-- sum the deltas to produce a measure of how "off" the judge was overall in that round
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby HeuristicsInc » Wed May 17, 2017 11:06 am

I'd hesitate to call anybody accurate or wrong or whatever based on an average, but I see your point. I'm not sure if an average of 5 is statistically significant.
To me, this round was a very close one for the most part and ended up with some ranking surprises. My rankings this time were more based on the challenge than in some other rounds.
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Wed May 17, 2017 11:08 am

Lunkhead wrote:Here is how much each judge was "off" by, compared to the final results:P


Ah, I see what you're doing now. I think this might be a little more enlighting?

J1: 0 0 4 5 5 2 1 0 6 5 = avg 2.3, median 3, min 0, max 6, range 6
J2: 0 5 2 2 1 2 4 2 1 1 = avg 2.0, median 2, min 0, max 5, range 5
J3: 1 1 1 1 2 4 1 3 1 1 = avg 1.6, median 1, min 1, max 4, range 3
J4: 4 1 1 1 1 3 3 0 2 4 = avg 2.0, median 1.5, min 0, max 4, range 4
J5: 0 8 2 2 3 3 1 4 0 3 = avg 2.6, median 2.5, min 0, max 8, range 8

If I had to rank judges by proximity to the final score, probably use median in ascending order? Doesn't mean any judge is 'good' or 'bad', because the whole group could be 'bad', but the numbers are fun.

It might be fun to do it without the absolute value off, too. Maybe there are accurate 'streaks' of rakings that are just generally off by an exception or two (the algorithm to find longest common string). Or throw out highs and lows. I don't know. I don't know numbers.

Maybe we should let the contestants rank the judges for each round when the contest is over and we can throw them off next year. ;)
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby furrypedro » Wed May 17, 2017 11:20 am

Fascinating spread of points there. Particularly the fact that the top two songs didn't get a 10.

Congrats to BSS!

May the statistical analysis resume...
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby j$ » Wed May 17, 2017 11:21 am

Lunkhead wrote:With the Skub comment I was just attempting and apparently failing per usual to make a joke (specifically about Skub being tough competition) as I attempted to indicate via the :P emoji. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Ah no, I got it, found it funny, made a joke back, which is why I used the :) You see, perfect example of a geographical / cultural / old man not understanding the internet variant you need to factor into your algorithm :)

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(at some point I'll stop burying these really obvious clues for those who want to find them)
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby j$ » Wed May 17, 2017 11:23 am

Manhattan Glutton wrote: Maybe we should let the contestants rank the judges for each round when the contest is over and we can throw them off next year. ;)

'Cos we found it so easy to find five judges willing to do it this year? :) I mean, I don't want to say 'whiny, ungrateful contestants = lack of desire to become involved" but I'm sure there's an algorithm to prove it somehow :)

Niv, do you still have that 'Nur Ein - Guide for Judges' joke handbook I wrote a few years back? The year Eric Y and FBF went to war with each other? Maybe it's time to give that an airing ...
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Wed May 17, 2017 11:41 am

I didn't even realize it was in the realm of possibilities! I would have volunteered 2 years ago, too, though we wouldn't have seen me flame out with my awesome Caravan Ray impersonation.
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby Spintown » Wed May 17, 2017 12:20 pm

Manhattan Glutton wrote:Maybe we should let the contestants rank the judges for each round when the contest is over and we can throw them off next year. ;)


I support the judging of judges...it's only fair.
http://music.cratchit.org/2010/06/revie ... dging.html
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby j$ » Wed May 17, 2017 12:26 pm

I did like (was it year one, three?) where the judges, after the contest, were invited to record their own song (title was "Don't Judge Me") which was then judged by the competitors. Oh and the judges had to include*ALL* the challenges. At least it was a 'creative' way of all of us disappearing up all own arses. :roll:
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby Spintown » Wed May 17, 2017 12:31 pm

That's an awesome idea. Mostly because I'm not a musician so I wouldn't have to do it. ;p
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby Manhattan Glutton » Wed May 17, 2017 12:41 pm

Ok so I don't want to get too crazy pie-in-the-sky, but what if we alternate 8 week competitions and the top contestants become judges? Maximize the inbred music taste.
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby HeuristicsInc » Wed May 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Spintown wrote:That's an awesome idea. Mostly because I'm not a musician so I wouldn't have to do it. ;p


you'd totally have to do it. not being a musician is no excuse.
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby j$ » Wed May 17, 2017 4:08 pm

Oh.FTR, back then only two judges bothered to do it, Jack Shite and me. Everyone else had an 'excuse' (though to be fair, Niv's was pretty a fair one). Also FTR I won (though all evidental proof of that disappeared along with Dumbrella boards. *ahem*). A version of it became 'Jah Humbug!' on the Johnny Cashpoint's Space Pub 2008 album 'Badly Dubbed;'. [/shameless self-promotion].

So I guess this was 2007 Nur Ein, or maybe (less likely) 2006 ...
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby Lunkhead » Wed May 17, 2017 4:30 pm

The year Erin and I judged, I did a collab after called "Judgeblood", with Niveous and Puce:

viewtopic.php?p=121033#p121033

More post-contest judge-made music would be great.

EDIT: Doh, broken link for the mp3 :(
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby Spintown » Wed May 17, 2017 5:28 pm

HeuristicsInc wrote:
Spintown wrote:That's an awesome idea. Mostly because I'm not a musician so I wouldn't have to do it. ;p


you'd totally have to do it. not being a musician is no excuse.
-bill


Well I could do it if someone did the music...and the singing...I could write lyrics. (bad ones, but I could try)
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby GlennCase » Wed May 17, 2017 7:33 pm

j$ wrote:Oh.FTR, back then only two judges bothered to do it, Jack Shite and me. Everyone else had an 'excuse'. Also FTR I won (though all evidental proof of that disappeared along with Dumbrella boards. *ahem*). A version of it became 'Jah Humbug!' on the Johnny Cashpoint's Space Pub 2008 album 'Badly Dubbed;'. [/shameless self-promotion].

So I guess this was 2007 Nur Ein, or maybe (less likely) 2006 ...


I want to say this was the first year because it seems like Jack Shite was one of the judges for the year I won. Plus, I seem to remember being at least partially responsible for the suggestion that the judges should do a song for fun.

In all fairness, I could be mis-remembering.

[ EDIT: FOUND THE THREAD! viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2462 ]
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby Caravan Ray » Wed May 17, 2017 11:13 pm

Well, here is a small milestone.

It appears that this song was the 150th solo song that I have written/recorded
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby j$ » Thu May 18, 2017 3:10 am

Beginner :) Congrats CR - here's to the next 150.

I also can'[t remember (Niv may be able to clarify) - XTRG's 'The Nicest Part of Town Is Also the Darkest' (sic) was a think a judge-band - Noah(?), Roymond, Niv, myself and one other who has completely gone from my recall. It may have been something that we worked on as the contest continued - then again, I am not entirely sure those four people have been part of the judging team at the same time ...

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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby MicahSommer » Thu May 18, 2017 12:15 pm

furrypedro wrote:Fascinating spread of points there. Particularly the fact that the top two songs didn't get a 10.

Congrats to BSS!

May the statistical analysis resume...


Ahem, there are actually three songs in the top two slots, one of which did in fact score a 10. :)

Congratulations to BSS, their song this round was my favorite of theirs so far. I thought the whole field was very strong this round.
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Re: Nur Ein XII - Round Four

Postby BoffoYux » Thu May 18, 2017 2:58 pm

Spintown wrote:I support the judging of judges...it's only fair.
http://music.cratchit.org/2010/06/revie ... dging.html


Damn. I forgot all about that one for the first SpinTunes. That was over 7 years ago! I liked our song - and then realized even if it made it in on time (power outage in IL meant no way to send the files) it wasn't the correct POV and would have been a DQ.

However, I also came to realize that ultimately, the judging didn't matter for the life of the song. We did a video for it using comic stills, got a ton of press and hits on Russian comic book sites, and eventually it was featured in a film festival in NH. I believe the reviews weren't so kind at the time.

I loved Niveous' thoughts on the song - 'Good god, this song drags like a dog's butt on the carpet.'

You were right, that song did drag on a bit, and I don't think we ever put in a chorus. But we got a hell of a lot of milage for it way before the Marvel Movie came out.


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