Nur Ein I Round Five "Don't Go To..."

Niveous · Post by **Niveous** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:01 am

Octothorpe: Wow, this is long. It's an Octo Jam session. Some got a bottle of the good stuff and it's a lazy sunday and the Octoboys are rocking. This is a classic # track and I think I've been waiting for one of these all competition. The more I listen to this, the more I dig it. It definitely runs too long but it's a fun jam tune. Nice bass solo. Good work, #.

Leaf 62: You listed the album as "tired and run down" and it shows. I don't like the "protected perspective" part. It sticks out like a sore thumb. List lyrics never work with me. I like the solos though. The dueling bass and guitar stuff always works with me. I only wish the bass solo would have been of the same calibre as the guitar solo. Listen to some Jonas Hellborg and Jeff Sipe and you'll see what I mean. That was decent but not great.

Glenn Case: I can't stand the effected first verse. It's a cute idea for a song but it doesn't work for me. The lyrics work better when read which isn't a good thing. The breakdown seems almost like a whole different song. Weak bass solo at the end. Not your best work.

Wreckdom: Some of these lyrics are so outrageous. And the Gates of hell chorus...This is great stuff. I'm getting dirty looks at the job for listening to this. That's always a plus. The delivery is so good on this. The chorus has punch while the verse is cold but that works. This needs a music video directed by Floria Sigimundi. The Wreckdom guitarist is the best. Hey, where was the bass solo???? If that was it at around 1:08, it sucked because it was overshadowed by everything else. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Jim Tyrrell: Hey, Leaf. You put in two songs this week? Oh wait, it's Jim doing a Leaf impression. Well, I think it works better than Leaf's song this week. It's catchy as all hell, that's for sure. The bass solo is there but it's so low that it doesn't stand out at all. I've listened to the song 6 times already and never noticed the bass solo until today and that was because I was looking for it. Good effort. Not your best but still a digable tune.

Calfborg: Not the best bass solo but way to get the bass out of the way early. This has a great feel to it. I love the instrumental section. Oh, another bass solo. Not too strong but with the strings, it's a great piece of music. And the last verse is delivered so well. This is spectacular. I'm joining the Calfborg fan club alongside Starfinger.

Ken: Such a charming little ditty. It's not a standout tune. But it's nothing annoying. I can listen to this song a 100 times. And it wouldn't aggravate me nor would it do anything else for me either. If this were an album, this would be a song that I wouldn't skip but wouldn't remember the song name later when asked about it. The bass solo is just tacked on but it is very nicely done. I'm 50/50 on this one.

Niveous · Post by **Niveous** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:16 am

The judging is over on the Don't Go To fight.

Calfborg crushes the competition with a 26 out of 28 score.

Jim Tyrrell, Wreckdom & Octothorpe have been eliminated.

The Judges Scores
Total Points (out of a possible 28 ):
Calfborg - 26
Leaf 62 - 18
Ken Mahru - 18
Glenn Case - 16
Wreckdom - 13
Jim Tyrrell - 13
Octothorpe - 8

Juror #1's scores:
Calfborg - 7
Wreckdom - 6
Octothorpe - 5
Ken - 4
Jim Tyrrell - 3
Glenn Case - 2
Leaf 62 - 1

Juror #2's scores:
Leaf - 7
Ken - 6
Calfborg - 5
Glenn - 4
Jim Tyrrell - 3
Wreckdom - 2
Octothrope - 1

Juror #3's scores:
calfborg 7
glenn 6
Leaf 62 5
Jim 4
Wreckdom 3
Ken 2
# 1

Juror #4's scores:
7: Calfborg
6: Ken
5: Leaf 62
4: Glenn Case
3: Jim Tyrrell
2: WreckdoM
1: Octothorpe

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:21 pm

jimt - i like the resonant keyboard a lot. my wife would say "that's a you kind of sound" which is something i hear a lot. anyway. pretty good. i especially like the chorus. automatic/psychosomatic/just static are great rhymes.

# - that string riff is kinda like the addams family theme or something, isn't it? this is back to the # normal sound. that keyboard in the right channel sounds a little off time. i like the call-and-response. fun. the random yelling is amusing. i'm kind of two minds on this one. some parts i like a lot, others no. the fun factor puts you on the favorites list.

calfborg - some of this feels offbalance. interesting. the solo/instrumental section is my favorite so far. pretty cool, but i didn't like it as much as last round's. good lyrics.

leaf - there's another great keyboard sound. see "jimt." anyway, nice. i really like the vocal on this. cool multi-instrumental solo section.

ken - that was a cool segue. i know this feeling. that's cool. nicely evocative. my favorite parts of all these songs is the solos. maybe i should listen to only solos for the rest of the afternoon. actually i like this a lot.

glenn - hmm great, i like the transition to full vox. spaghetti code and such == great lyrics. i love these lyrics. around 1:45 i feel lost. then it comes back no problems. good bass sound there.

wreckdom - wow, crazy. pretty nasty lyrics! i like the chorus. choruses. on the whole, not my favorite, but definitely some good bits.

favorites: #, leaf, ken, glenn

i like this fight better!
-bill

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:57 pm

Right, so I thought Iâ€˜d better check these tunes out, and see what all the hoopla is aboutâ€¦

Octothorpe: the intro didnâ€™t interest me, but I really liked the feel and sound of the verse. It sounds very odd...with that accordion going on there. Like itâ€™s the fall fair and the wind is blowing and people are eating strudels and the band is jamming. It feels like a jam. You know what? This has a smoother feel to it. There is a lot of mid range information going on. The production is good. I find it humourous that this weekâ€™s challenge is â€œcall and responseâ€

jack · Post by **jack** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:14 pm

i don't think it's so much homogenization of the remaining entries as much as it's a lack of options now that so many have been shown the virtual door. i think the common thread now between the final 4 is consistency in creating good stuff, which we can see is pretty subjective. you 4 all do relatively different stuff, well produced, well written, etc. good is the common thread here, not musical style.

certainly nothing against wreckdom, jim, or octothorpe. as you guys know, it's tough to be at the top of your game 5 straight weeks, and one dud will almost certainly kill you.

nothing but respect for all the nur einers from me.

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:17 pm

Leaf wrote:Anyone else notice a subtle homogenization of the Nur Ein sound?

Yeah, it seems all the non-rock participants (except for Calfborg) were eliminated... I guess it's due to the averaging nature of the judge's final scores. The crossover popularity is what wins the day.
However Calfborg has had obvious quality, keeping him in.
Anyway whatever! It's fun!
-bill

Mogosagatai · Post by **Mogosagatai** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:33 am

HeuristicsInc wrote:Yeah, it seems all the non-rock participants (except for Calfborg) were eliminated...

What, everyone but Leaf was eliminated?

3 out of 4 jurors agreed on the three worst (by which I mean, least good) songs. I'd say that makes this the most solid set of eliminations yet.

jack · Post by **jack** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:56 am

i agree with mogo here. it's not about rock, it's about quality.

i have no idea what "non-rock" means here, especially as 2 of the songs are guy and guitar songs. maybe because they actually follow a linear arrangement, have lyrics that might actually tie in to the title and theme, and features real people playing real instruments.

telling yourself you're a "niche" musician is just a convenient way of saying that alot of people probably don't like your music.

as for crossover popularity, all you need to do is look at the scores to realize there is no such thing going on here. the scores are all over the place and the artists participating have said themselves the voting has been very unpredictable.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:33 pm

um...sorry guys, I didn't mean it as a criticism! I was being more flakey, like, wow, things are starting to even out a tad... and I don't even mean alot.

You know when you play with someone, hell, if you SPEAK with someone, you start adopting elements of there language? Bits of slang become shared... same with music.. and I'm starting to notice little crossovers.

I know for me, that things Des did specifically influenced me, those I can pin down better,but I can also hear, in MY stuff, other influences coming from the other Nur Ein participants. I don't really notice that much in a regular fight, although it happens...

So, I wasn't trying to through a shot at the judges, or at knocked out participants style, I was wondering (and maybe homogonized, (spelt better) is n't the right word?) if others noticed cross-influence, or at least were willing to mention it.
Case in point, when Niv suggested Jim's song "sounded like a Leaf" song, I was suprised on three levels!

1) I have a particular style that could possibly be emulated? Weird...
2) I never noticed it, I just heard Jim!! But I wondered... holy crap, DID I influence him, as others are influencing me,?
3) Wow, I've been picking up on things pushing me in directions... maybe others have too...

That's about it. oh... and I've had about 30 different ideas float through my head for this week... I am genuinely nervous that I'm about to fall behind the pack here!! So... I'm gonna TRY to raise my game a bit... hopefully we all do and this round will be the toughest to decide, and will blow away everyone!!!

uh... right Glenn, right Ken, right.... uh... Calfborg??

Also, when you look at who's left, it's four rather different sounds and styles... so... hopefully my thought on that is a BIT clearer!!

jimtyrrell · Post by **jimtyrrell** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:00 pm

1) I have a particular style that could possibly be emulated? Weird...

Yes.

2) I never noticed it, I just heard Jim!! But I wondered... holy crap, DID I influence him, as others are influencing me,?

Yes.

3) Wow, I've been picking up on things pushing me in directions... maybe others have too...

Yes.

I wouldn't say I set out to write a Leaf-inspired tune, but I do think it's safe to say that there's been a lot about the entries in this contest that has impressed me, and I've been in a better position to try out some things myself that I thought were particularly interesting. I learned a lot from this, and the judges and fellow Nur Einers are deserving of much of the credit for that.
Hopefully I can keep the fire lit, and continue to produce. Maybe I can (gasp!) actually start SongFighting again on a regular basis!

Nur Ein!

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:08 pm

jack wrote: i have no idea what "non-rock" means here, especially as 2 of the songs are guy and guitar songs. maybe because they actually follow a linear arrangement, have lyrics that might actually tie in to the title and theme, and features real people playing real instruments.

well. maybe not "rock" but "guitar-based." i misstated having just listened to all the songs in more than one fight. anyway.

all the rap, all the electronic, most of the weird, are all eliminated and we're left with guitar-based stuff for the most part. i'm not complaining, you understand, just saying all the niche-style stuff was eliminated. is that because these genres are worse than anything else? who can say. were these particular songs worse than others? probably. i'm not saying it's not fair, i'm saying it just is.
honestly i didn't have my best songs in nur ein. oddly my favorite i think is el balazo, but i certainly nichified myself more than usual with that one. gotta follow the muse tho.

telling yourself you're a "niche" musician is just a convenient way of saying that alot of people probably don't like your music.

is this some sort of dis on me? i don't think i called myself a niche musician here. it sounds like you're putting me down for some reason.
-bill

jack · Post by **jack** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:03 pm

well, i can honestly say that no, it was not intended towards you personally, although i have to also point out you seem awful defensive about it, and seem to mention that particular word to describe your own music numerous times in your followup.

truth hurts. opinion is subjective but still hurts sometimes. i didn't like the way you implied that the 4 of us were just brainless bots who vote mainstream or vote for the crossover as you put it. read the votes and show me the crossover. octothorpe and wreckdom made it to the next to last round, and deshead, who i arguably think is the best songfighter here got eliminated. leave it alone and quit trying to figure us out.

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:29 pm

jack wrote:well, i can honestly say that no, it was not intended towards you personally, although i have to also point out you seem awful defensive about it, and seem to mention that particular word to describe your own music numerous times in your followup.

ok, then. just didn't know why you brought it up and i didn't think i mentioned it before that last post. i don't mean to sound defensive.

i didn't like the way you implied that the 4 of us were just brainless bots who vote mainstream or vote for the crossover as you put it.

jeez, that's totally not what i meant. i was just making a comment on how when you average things, you get averages. and by crossover i mean artists or songs who appeal to a wide range of people, so maybe these observations didn't even need to be made because they are kinda obvious.
if you read "you're brainless" into what i wrote, umm, well, i can't help you because it's certainly nowhere expressed in my original post. i know you people and i know you're not mainstream.

leave it alone and quit trying to figure us out.

ha, what else do i have to do? no new fights yet!

for what it's worth, somebody else mentioned that to me (in private) and started me thinking about it, which is why i brought it up in the first place.
-bill

jack · Post by **jack** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:40 pm

and really, it wasn't intended towards you.

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:12 pm

cool, thanks.
-bill

Ross · Post by **Ross** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:11 pm

Along the lines of some of Leaf's comments. I think an interesting piece of Nur Ein for me has been hearing an identical group of musicians each week (with a few missing each time). In Songfight! proper people take weeks off, choose different titles, etc... so that you don't have 4 or 5 weeks in a row comparing your product and reviews of it with a set group of individuals. It is an interesting part of this process and I'll bet early songfight was a bit like this, looking how regular the core group was on those early titles. So I can see how I noticed things that seemed successful/what was well reviewed and tried to incorporate them into my style. It has been a great part of this format, that regularity.

Dan-O from Five-O · Post by **Dan-O from Five-O** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:10 am

jimtyrrell wrote:Hopefully I can keep the fire lit, and continue to produce. Maybe I can (gasp!) actually start SongFighting again on a regular basis.

Jim, I hope that's the very least you take away from this competition. It would be a shame if you didn't. I thought I understood your musical style before this competition started, and I think you relied on it early on. But then I noticed you expanding your horizons and going in directions that caught me off guard. That's been very fun to watch, not only from you but from a lot of the participants. I never expected an Octothorpe blues song.

Good work by everyone the last several weeks. It's hard watching people get cut from this, but it is the nature of the beast. Good luck to the Final Four.

mkilly · Post by **mkilly** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:33 am

HeuristicsInc wrote:well. maybe not "rock" but "guitar-based." i misstated having just listened to all the songs in more than one fight. anyway.

all the rap, all the electronic, most of the weird, are all eliminated and we're left with guitar-based stuff for the most part.

unless you're playing jazz, classical, zydeco, etc., every musician in nur ein is playing what is essentially rock music, or heavily influenced by rock music.

I'm no ethnomusicologist, but Kraftwerk, Nine Inch Nails, Dntel, Devo, Neu!, Beastie Boys, 50 Cent, etc owe more to rock than they do to any other movement writ large. Even the contemporary experimental scene has a strong influence from that area (besides Dada). Octothorpe has a bass guitar and often a rhythm or lead guitar. In fact two members of # have six-string guitars. Ben Folds Five is undoubtedly a rock band, and they were bass/piano/drums. I don't listen to Wreckdom but I'm pretty sure they aren't doing anything so innovative or so isolated that rock music isn't an apparent influence. I can't speak for the judges, but it could simply be that the songs you've termed rock/guitar-oriented are better songs, right? Or more appealing? If you'd like to write a thesis explaining why Octothorpe was in fact the best entry and the track's genius was overlooked by the Luddite yokel judges, please do so, but--speaking as an Octothorpe fan here--it wasn't their best track, but they deserved to get where they got to in Nur Ein.

Come on people! It's songFIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT

j$ · Post by j$ » Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:20 pm

mkilly wrote:Kraftwerk ... owe more to rock than they do to any other movement writ large.

I would have to disagree strongly about this particular example. The others, fine. This one, ummm, no.

j$

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:23 pm

mkilly wrote:If you'd like to write a thesis

Haha, no, I was just musing. Please don't make a big deal out of it.
Mostly I am not good at choosing the right words to make my points, and people take what I write instead of what I mean, and everyone is confused. So, uh, yeah. I'm done!

Hey, good luck to the last four! I am awaiting your results with great anticipation!
-bill

Mogosagatai · Post by **Mogosagatai** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:17 am

<b>Glenn Case</b>: Still growing on me. Great changes going on in here. The bridge is a great surprise. Iâ€™d say you nailed this one, and in retrospect I shouldâ€™ve ranked you a little higher than I did.

<b>Octothorpe</b>: The vocals are too buried among the mix. The drums are nice. This is decent in that itâ€™s pretty silly. Iâ€™m not sure how Iâ€™d improve it, other than a drastic reduction in cheesiness (vague term, I know). The â€œYeah! Work it!â€