Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

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Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by Lunkhead »

Songs to be posted shortly.

Lyrics thread here: https://www.songfight.net/forums/viewto ... =5&t=11351
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by Lunkhead »

Songs posted. 8 of the 12 submissions this time had problems and they weren't all from first timers. PLEASE read the FAQ/tips for submitting:

http://www.songfight.org/faq.html#file_name
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by vowlvom »

Excellent turnout in the end!
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by ujnhunter »

Hopefully I'll have some time to review these tracks, but as of right now I just wanted to say that all of the songs production wise... sound fantastic! I'm almost tempted to just select them all (minus my own) and hit vote! Great job everyone.
-Ujn Hunter
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by vowlvom »

I've been listening in the car today. Really interesting mix of songs, I love it when there's a good mix of guitars and synths and a few stranger entries. I'll write some reviews after a few more listens.
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by reve »

ujnhunter wrote:right now I just wanted to say that all of the songs production wise... sound fantastic!
I'd like to second what my other half said. You guys really knocked out some top notch tracks. That being said, if the contest were simply to appeal to me, I'd give James Owens the first place medal. That was just a beautifully done track. It evoked everything I love about Robin Hitchcock and none of the things I don't like about Robin Hitchcock. Running up on the runners would be Faster Jackalope's track evoking the early oughts and Third Cat's indie-jangleisms.

But again, top notch work, people!
-- reve mosquito.
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by thirdcat »

Just listened to all of the songs straight through and I think this is one of my favorite fights so far, lots of cool stuff. Will do some reviews after more listens. James Owens stood out for me again - this time reminded me of David Bowie a bit. Cool topical lyrics that drew me in too. But really there were a lot of songs that caught my interest, the two reve+ujn / ujn +reve songs were pretty neat for sure. Full reviews comin' later.
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by thirdcat »

OG Lawn Darts - Love the groove. Nice mix of keys and guitars. The overall sounds nice & open, everything is clear. Vocals sit nicely in the mix and have a nice bit of attitude to them. Really nice touch having the vocals doubled at certain points ("they know" "we know") to make 'em jump out. Really well done. Definite vote for me.

Paco del Stinko - Lots of dissonance in the guitars which from listening to the rest of your stuff I think must be on purpose. Not sure I really love the way it's working on my ears at the mo' but there is a cool riff in there. As always I love the backing vocals and how they jump out and grab my attention. A lot going on here, may be a grower.

Hot Life - I almost really like this one, but it doesn't quite jump out of the speakers enough for me. Maybe a bit too lo-fi for my taste. There's some really cool layers here though. The main ... I guess I'll say bass ? thing is really cool. I enjoy listening to this, has a nice sort of laid back trippy vibe. I'm not quite sure what I think of it overall. But as a whole listening to these 12 songs as an "album" I thought this was an enjoyable sort of excursion from the more developed songs. In other words it doesn't really go anywhere - but that one place where it is is pretty nice.

James Owens - I think you really killed it with the vocals and the lyrics. Not to say the backing instrumental isn't cool too - because I think it really works, cool how it's mostly this sort of stately thing but there's some distorted guitars in the background too giving it some bite. I kinda wanted drums to kick in at some point but I think it may be more effective without them and I can see why you didn't do it. I mentioned David Bowie - I think that's mostly in the vocal - also kind of reminds me of a more recent guy - Father John Misty. Well I guess I'm a fan because this is my 2nd straight fight where James Owens is my favorite. Definite vote.

Ujn & Reve - Cool '80s synth pop vibe. The production/mix is pretty great and the vocals really fit this style well I think. I like this one a lot, another definite vote. Not saying much about it, but that's mainly because I think it's so fully realized - like it seems like you did what you were setting out to do. Good work.

Midnight Yacht Club
- Dig the name. And the sort of spaced out vibe is definitely up my alley. Maybe the vocals are a *little* too high in the mix (although I get that they should be up front with this style.) This is one where I really enjoyed it a lot even though objectively I don't think it's as good as some of the others here, just as genre - bias - but like in a good way? Is that still called genre-bias? I don't know. But I like this. Maybe the whole idea of trying to be objective with this stuff is pointless and I should just go with my gut reactions, I go back and forth on that. Anyway; enough rambling, this one will get a vote from me.

MetroBoys - Prety wild soundscape. Love the bass. Instrumentally, in places, it even reminds me of Radiohead (if they were really drunk...) overall it gets just a bit too sloppy for my taste but I like the ideas.

Faster Jackelope - Objectively I think I have to give this a vote because it's really well done. Subjectively I can't stand this song and coudln't make it through two listens - I hate Blink 182, one of my least favorite bands of the last 20 years. But I think you deserve a vote for nailing the style where I got that same itchy feeling I do when I hear one of their songs. Vote.

Reve & Ujn - Another really cool one. I do think I like the darker slower parts a bit more - when it tries to go poppy in places it doesn't quite work for me (maybe because the wild atmospherics are still there?) Still; overall I really like this one; love the soundscape. Yeah the vocals are a bit buried but that seems OK for this one, fits the style alright. Vote, but I do think the Ujn + Reve one would rank higher for me if we were doing rankings instead of just straight votes.

Pigfarmer Jr - Acoustic sounds pretty nice - really bright - and the vocals are alright for this style I think. Genre bias for me unfortunately; I just don't really like this style of song very much. On the objective side of things: big ups for acoustic sound and I think the layers you introduced sound pretty good too. Nice arrangement to have new stuff coming in to keep it from dragging.

Berkeley Social Scene - Instrumentally it sounds really good, especially the guitars and bass (drums seem mixed a little low) probably enough there to get a vote but I don't love the vocals. I do like the breakdown section and the guitar solo. Overall; probably a vote because there's some great stuff going on here instrumentally. The gang vocals "what do they know?" are pretty cool. What Do They Know? Do They Know Things?? Let's Find Out!
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by vowlvom »

Berkeley Social Scene - this is the most frustrating BSS song that I've heard. I like the punky energy but the shift to the slow middle-8 and solo totally shoots it in the foot for me. If there was ever a BSS song that didn't need a solo, it's this one. The gang vocals at the end are great, in my Fan Edit version (note: doesn't actually exist) they come in earlier, there's no slow bit and this is well under three minutes long.

Faster Jackelope - I already praised this as a SpinTune, I think it's slightly less praiseworthy as a SongFight because the goofy lyrics aren't quite as charming when I'm not adding points for mimicry and I'm not sure it's the best fit for the title out of these tracks - this is more of a "They Say" than a "They Know". But I still really like it and it's a definite vote.

Hot Life - points for an unusual sound (electronics + sax? I think?) but this doesn't quite click together to me. I've had these 12 tracks on repeat in the car for a few days though and I never got bored of this one.

James Owens - very well done, my only criticism is that I liked this one more the first time I heard it than I did on subsequent listens, unlike others that improved with time. Is that even criticism? I don't really know. I like the vibe though, and you sing it well, and I think it's another vote.

MetroBoys - I really like the drony intro and the drums in general are excellent, but there are some timing issues between the bass and drums once this kicks in that kinda bugged me and I hate the effect on the vocals which mostly sinks this one for me.

Midnight Yacht Club - another one I immediately liked but didn't really stick with me after a few listens. I think the lead guitar is a little too busy and it feel a little too short to really have any room to develop. I like the dreamy vibe though and this is another probable vote.

OG Lawn Darts - well recorded, well performed but for reasons I can't particularly articulate I very strongly dislike this. I guess it's genre bias, although I'm not sure what genre this is?

Paco del Stinko - the sinister vibe to the chorus is good and I love the use of backing vocals, but the song as a whole doesn't really do it for me.

Pigfarmer Jr. - you have been delivering The Feels a lot recently and I think this one is the best yet. The lyrics are a great take on the title and I love how you work it into the lyrics in several different contexts. The mix isn't perfect, the quiet "should this have drums or not?" drums kinda bug me, but the songwriting is really excellent. Probably my favourite this round.

reve & ujn - some interesting stuff here and I'm sure the ultra-muddy mix is intentional but I wish I could actually hear what is going on in this song, especially when the really melodic section bursts in later on.

Third Cat - both of the main sections of this are SUPER catchy and there are a lot of great production touches. Another one of my favourites.

ujn & reve - and one more favourite! The dark electro-pop vibe is great and the vocals are confident and strong. My only complaint is that it ends just as it feels like it's really starting to kick in, I wish this one was longer!
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by AJOwens »

Berkeley Social Scene
The tight unison of the guitar-bass riff stands out, along with the chorus harmonies suspended like stratified clouds over the frenetic energy. The lyrics feel paranoid, which is a theme in this fight. I'm having trouble pinning them down -- also a theme in this fight, which often evokes shadowy agents and nebulous fears. A good song with a distinctive BSS sound. The hook is bright and energetic, but the scan on "nervous" is a bit distracting. The mellow interlude offers relief, but seems relaxed for the overall message.

Faster Jackalope
Brisk and tight, impressive drumming, good tonal contrasts and arrangement changes, lots of raw energy. A quick tight chorus with effective harmonies. The song has a quasi-punk commercial pop sound in places, and I mean that as a good thing. It's as if the Ramones discovered musical arrangement. I'm not sure what the lyrics mean.

Hot Life
Develops a nice Casio-synth groove, with occasional unexpected changes in the pattern. The effect is to transcend time; the song becomes a state rather than an event. I like the ambience, the erratic yet hypnotic rhythms and lulling chords, the interjections from the sax patch, the way the vocals weave through the song in layers. The lyrics seem to express an unspecified paranoia.

James Owens
The music felt dated, but I had some encouragement over the words so I carried on. I used a single MIDI keyboard track fed to three different patches (probably could have done more with the string arrangement), a bass that may be too forward in the mix, a strat-style guitar stacked with eight or nine synth effects, and an Artley flute with the obligatory heavy reverb.

MetroBoys
A more specific survelliance-based concern in the paranoia of the lyrics, mixed with deserved or undeserved guilt. The music takes the role of a backdrop, with some wonderful strange noises ovelaid on an impromptu bass-and-drums interaction that stays interesting without getting in the way.

Midnight Yacht Club
A mellow, steady, upbeat tune about an exposed dysfunctional relationship. The music has a gentle bounce, full of soft, lilting sounds. There are backing vocals but they are not exactly harmonies, more like a second singing track. True harmonies would add to the sweetness and charm. The smooth mood forms an extreme contrast to the troubled lyrics.

OG Lawn Darts
Funky (by my definition anyway). The rap-like rhythms in the vocals, the kick reverb on the guitar, the Farfisa-inspired chirping, and the smooth sinuous leads come together in a latter-day Talking Heads vibe, but with a cheerful defiance that dissipates usual notions of paranoia. The part about wanting to make a difference resonates with me.

Paco del Stinko
Based on a hard-driving riff, but with the strange chord changes and unusual vocal overlays and other crazy goings-on that I always admire in a Paco song. This one thrives on a certain raggedness. The faint tremolo guitar in some passages is an inspired contrast to the predominant grunge sound. Another song about paranoia, with an in-my-brain take.

Pigfarmer Jr.
This thoughtful and touching piece is the second Pigfarmer Jr. song in a row that makes me uncomfortable; the despair is unrelieved (even though love is supposed to relieve it). But it offers a highly original take on the title, the emotional message is powerful, and the music is tuneful, nicely played and recorded: crisp guitar, understated drums, confident singing.

Reve and Ujn
This one has a lot of atmosphere. The intro hints at sirens. With a muffled, somewhat menacing vocal over a dark brooding bass and a whiplike percussion, this song strikes me as a good soundtrack for 1984. Even the brisk contrasting part feels like hope suppressed. It's hard to make out the words; I think the vocals could be louder in the mix, or higher in the sibilant range, without sacrificing the effect.

Third Cat
A mellow, steady, upbeat tune about an exposed dysfunctional relationship. The guitars and keys sparkle, and the bass skips lightly. Good vocals, interesting melodies and surprise chords, a nice change of arrangement in the middle, and great overall tone. Also very tight performance, after which the ending feels a bit disorganized.

Ujn and Reve
Inevitably this will attract comparisons to Reve amd Ujn. It's also dark and electronic, but more upbeat and melodic, with a brighter and more open mix. The paranoia seems to involve political secrets and perhaps secret police. At just under three minutes it's a reasonable length, yet it ends abruptly, with both music and lyrics seemingly about to reveal more. Moments in the vocal melody and delivery are striking, such as the sudden and intense drop to ". . .ground" (which unfortunately appears only once).
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by AJOwens »

Lunkhead wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:22 pm
Songs posted. 8 of the 12 submissions this time had problems and they weren't all from first timers. PLEASE read the FAQ/tips for submitting:

http://www.songfight.org/faq.html#file_name
I think I did it right, but I've been wrong about such matters before. Maybe you could mail or IM the offending parties with a gentle reminder, so they know for sure they screwed up.
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by AJOwens »

thirdcat wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:06 am
James Owens - I think you really killed it with the vocals and the lyrics. Not to say the backing instrumental isn't cool too - because I think it really works, cool how it's mostly this sort of stately thing but there's some distorted guitars in the background too giving it some bite. I kinda wanted drums to kick in at some point but I think it may be more effective without them and I can see why you didn't do it. I mentioned David Bowie - I think that's mostly in the vocal - also kind of reminds me of a more recent guy - Father John Misty. Well I guess I'm a fan because this is my 2nd straight fight where James Owens is my favorite. Definite vote.
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. Myself, I wasn't sure about the music; it feels very "old school" (or perhaps "old guy") in contrast to everything else in the fight. I considered adding drums, but as it turns out, their absence helps set the entry apart.
Last edited by AJOwens on Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by AJOwens »

vowlvom wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:36 am
James Owens - very well done, my only criticism is that I liked this one more the first time I heard it than I did on subsequent listens, unlike others that improved with time. Is that even criticism? I don't really know. I like the vibe though, and you sing it well, and I think it's another vote.
Thanks for the review. Using the same rather boring piano MIDI to feed the string and wind patches (it was "piccolo" but down two octaves) probably deadened it for repeated listening. But as I mentioned in the prefight, over-orchestration also seemed like a danger at the time.
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by AJOwens »

reve wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:32 am
. . .James Owens. . . evoked everything I love about Robin Hitchcock and none of the things I don't like about Robin Hitchcock.
Thanks for the favourable comments. I'd never heard of Robyn Hitchcock, but I checked him out and I agree we're coming from the same musical space. We also share the same hair colour!
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by thirdcat »

oh yeah; on the file naming I realized I had been sometimes (on about half of my entries so far) been capitalizing my band name like ThirdCat instead of thirdcat, will fix that for future entries.

James Owens - yes my ending bit is kind of just tacked on there and doesn't really fit the rest of it, I almost cut it out when finalizing my track - after hearing it a few more times after submission, I know I should have.
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by BoffoYux »

Nice job on these songs. I'll try and get a review up soon. Life has been a shitshow the last month. The LPs are a nice distraction.

I'll be hosting a LP for SpinTunes and 'They Know' on Monday 12/17 at 9 pm EST. (Unless the new songs are up for 'The Sugary Goo Inside' by then)



Bonus points if you know who's piano this is. Famous author.
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by Pigfarmer Jr »

Berkeley Social Scene - I love the intro. This is a great opening track for an album. I like the bass line. he drums are clear but not overbearing. I like the melody well enough but the vocals just don't quite live up to the rest of the track. It's a good song, though. Maybe not my favorite BSS song, but I like it.

Faster Jackalope - I like all the parts of this song. The drums, guitars, vocal and lyric. Even the mix is decent. But for some reason (probably personal bias) the song doesn't quite work as well as a whole as I would expect. Not bad, mind you. I don't dislike it.

Hot Life - The 8-bit rhythm track and the arrangement work very well for me. The vocals not so much. I actually like the doubled lines that don't quite line up effect. It's cool. But by being buried in the mix (I get the artistic choice) it just gives me an uneasy feeling that might be on purpose, but doesn't work as well for me as an enjoyable listening experience as it does as an artistic choice. Just didn't work for me. But from an arrangement point of view, it's a fun one. On second thought/after a couple of listens, it might be the bass line and other elements that are more prominent that take away from the vocal effect. In other words, it's a mix decision, not an arrangement decision that just barely misses the mark for me... maybe.

James Owens - My only complaint is that there are no real dynamic changes, no build up to help support the overly dramatic melody and vocal delivery. I like the vocal performance and the use of the keys and synth pad-like texture. The subject matter gives me an odd reaction. I agree with it, but it puts me more in mind of my Republican friends who complain about the left more than my Democrat friends that complain about the right. Maybe that means you did a good job of having a pretty even hand in the criticism. Or maybe it means I've been seeing too many political posts on Facebook and I'm burnt out on the subject matter. Either way, I like the song.

MetroBoys - This has a slightly chaotic live feel that I kind of like especially in the instrumental performances. A fun, but sloppy take. I think the same criticism of James is appropriate here. No real dynamic changes. It's short and doesn't need as much, but it's a bit too static to stand out. And sloppy rarely gets into the songfight winner circle even when it works.

Midnight Yacht Club - Enjoyable listen in a song that doesn't do a whole lot. I like the intro. The vocals are too high in the mix to fit in with the seductive music. I like this and while this song doesn't have a lot of dynamic changes it's short enough that it doesn't matter. Just wish the mix was spot on instead of merely pretty good.

OG Lawn Darts - I like the vocal performance/attitude. It carries the lyric nicely. The synth/key stabs work really well. And how the guitars play off of them in the verses. I like the bass. And the mix is good. And the bass.. did I mention that? It's a cool line. This one had me moving and grooving and is among my favorites after the first round of listening and hasn't fallen off after repeated listens, either.

Paco del Stinko - I like the guitar groove.. but it sounds a hair slow.. like stoner rock rather than rock.. which works well enough but isn't my cup of tea. The vocals aren't my favorite but are growing on me. Almost as if they aren't quite in sync, which may be an artistic choice that takes a minute to work for me.

Pigfarmer Jr - (me) Too slow, especially without the drums and bass in the first verse. I struggled with the mix on this quite a bit even though it's simple and straightforward. This is basically (loosely) about my grandmother before she died so it probably works for me better than most others.

Reve and Ujn - Cool bass line and intro. Not a fan of the buried vocal effect. At least as a constant effect without any changes. I feel it would work better with a less heavy hand or used as a dynamic shift rather than the main feature of the song.

Third Cat - I really like the melody especially on the chorus. The vocal performance isn't my favorite of yours, but I really like the dual lines and this song grows on me the more I hear it, or at least the chorus does. It really carries the song.

Ujn and Reve - The upfront vocal works very well here even if it's a hair dry in the mix. I love that doubled effect when you use it. It's very well done, not too obvious. My favorite of your two entries by far.

BSS, OG Lawn Darts, Third Cat and Ujn and Reve are the stand outs so far. I'll listen through some more before voting.
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by Smalltown Mike »

This is a really strong fight with a lot of great tunes. Nice work, people.

Midnight Yacht Club: There’s potential here with a little work on structure — instead of just the same riff repeated. Vocals might be a hair loud, too. But there’s something here.

Berkeley Social Scene: Great intro. The chorus doesn’t quite go where I expected, but still good. I like the pre-chorus bridge. Love the breakdown at 1:54. Really cool. Nice solo. Great tune. I really like the extra “What do they know?” vocals in the last chorus. Really brings it home.

Paco del Stinko:
Another GREAT intro. Great guitar sound. This is a really cool riff and a spacey riff. I’m digging this groove.

MetroBoys: Another song with a compelling start. The track is interesting, but the vocals are really not working for me.

James Owens:
I sort of wish this didn’t start with the chorus, and just went right into the “in the party with the whiskey” part. You’ve got me hooked, though. I want to listen to the end. Love the flute (if it’s indeed a flute.) Great work. Excellent.

Faster Jackalope: Well done. Very catchy, even though this style and era of the punk rock isn’t generally my thing. The post-chorus little breakdown is great. Really well-done tune. Very catchy — said already, but worth repeating.

Hot Life: This is really not my thing — but good for what it is, I think. Interesting enough. I do think the vocals could come up a bit in the mix. That repeated bass riff has to change at some point, I think.

Ujn and Reve: This is not really my jam, but your vocals grabbed me right from the start. Confident, clean and strong. I’m liking this WAY more than I thought I was going to from that opening synth. Second verse lyrics are really good. Love the instrumental breakdown. I’m really digging this. Great work. Your vocals are really perfect for this. The extra snare at 2:20 is really great. This could go on longer with a build at the end. (And yes, that’s coming from a guy who usually writes 30-second songs in shrts.)

Pigfarmer Jr:
Really nice acoustic recording. Another tune with strong confident vocals. I really like when the drums come in, but they could be a bit louder, I think. Like the subtle “they know” at the end of the lines. A really great tune. One of the best.

Third Cat: Wow — another great intro. It feels like maybe you stumble over the “all for show” line. Love the drums. This has a really nice melody, although it feels like that first intro party goes on a little long. Tons of interesting stuff going on here. Like the drum and vocal part at the end. Feels like you may want to revisit the overall structure, maybe move some things around.

Reve and Ujn: Really cool groove. I'm not a fan of the obscured vocal style; I’d be into hearing this with the same vocals as the other one you did. I like the groove, but overall it’s just not really working for me.

OG Lawn Darts: This is us. The goal was reggae / ska, which I don’t think we completely nailed but I like this tune all the same. Really dig the spacey e-bow part near the end. More from OG coming.
Punk rock is for children. Grab a six-pack at Half-a-Dozen Records.
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AJOwens
Panama
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by AJOwens »

Pigfarmer Jr wrote:. . . it puts me more in mind of my Republican friends who complain about the left more than my Democrat friends that complain about the right. . .
The right worries me deeply, but the left is hopelessly bourgeois.
Smalltown Mike" wrote:James Owens: I sort of wish this didn’t start with the chorus. . .
That never occurred to me! You're right, it would be an improvement. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Lunkhead
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by Lunkhead »

I got a bit delayed in posting the results due to some voting irregularities. Congrats Faster Jackalope!
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glennny
Jump
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by glennny »

Wow!

Thanks, everyone! Thanks to Thanks for the Frisbee for writing such a great tune! Thanks to Truth for tweaking the vocal melody! And a very special thanks to Third Cat, who says he gave us a vote, even though he really didn't like the song.

cheers!

-glennny
Phillipso, Older Brothers, Semolina Pilchards, Zipline , Thank Glennny for the Frisbee, The Odoriferous Valley, The Worldly Self Assurance, Berkeley Social Scene, Very Gentle Knives, Daddy Bop Swing Set, GUNS, The Kraken Lives, Cavedwellers
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thirdcat
Somebody Get Me A Doctor
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Re: Cutting corners on your mix? (They Know reviews)

Post by thirdcat »

It was a good song, just not my style, I try to be objective with my votes. Or some combo of objective and gut reaction. Anyway: Congrats to Faster Jackalope!
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