Two titles of sly self-reference in a row? Seriously? (501)

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Two titles of sly self-reference in a row? Seriously? (501)

Postby Lord of Oats » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:24 am

501
Due: Monday, 12/03/07 9:59am pst

Uh, it's cute the first time. After that, not so much.

And jeez, this title is even more abstract.
Last edited by Lord of Oats on Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby martyr » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:28 am

At first I thought you meant jeans. Then I realized you're just counting bottles of beer...

:? :? :?
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Postby jackfrost » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:08 am

sunday morning due date? no full weekend to work on the song? is this nur ein? i thought the usual time was around 10 days. that means that the entries will be posted by sunday at noon right?
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Postby Spud » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:53 am

That was intended to be Monday, and has been changed. However, you are free to work on the song any time between now and then. Weekends favor some participants, weekdays others. There is no usual time.
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Re: Two titles of sly self-reference in a row? Seriously? (

Postby roymond » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:00 am

Lord of Oats wrote:501
Due: December (Sunday?) 12/02/07 9:59am pst

Uh, it's cute the first time. After that, not so much.

And jeez, this title is even more abstract.

You're kidding, right?
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Postby jackfrost » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:12 am

thank you for the monday deadline.
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Postby veGetar Ianra Ge » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:22 am

What exactly is the problem here? It's just a number. It can be whatever you want.
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Postby erik » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:51 pm

"And Counting" was not an abstract title. Neither is "501".
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Postby Reist » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:32 pm

erik wrote:"And Counting" was not an abstract title. Neither is "501".

I'm pretty sure that when they say "abstract" they mean "terrible". There are only so many ways to use those titles. If you look at the lyrics section for "And Counting", you'll see what I mean.

Lyrics from "And Counting"
MC Eric B wrote:I rule this Songfight
number 500 and counting


Wages wrote:five years old and counting


TVsKyle wrote:20-a-million times and counting


my song wrote:50 years and counting


Several others omitted the title altogether and implied its use.

I gotta hand it to max the cat and Steve though - they managed to pull some serious creativity on the title.

To be honest, I think 501 has more creative possibilities than "And Counting".
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Postby Billy's Little Trip » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:36 pm

erik wrote:"And Counting" was not an abstract title. Neither is "501".

How about now? 501
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Postby jb » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:46 pm

If by "only so many ways" you mean infinity +1... and counting.

I mean really, there are a gazillion ways to approach any title. If you can't see that, you're either not equipped to play the game or you're not trying hard enough.

Not to mention that how creatively you approach the title has nothing to do with how good your song is. The most mundane, straightforward approach can result in a beautiful song.

Couldn't Glenn Case have written a beautiful set of lyrics about his anniversary for this title?

you and I, oh my
sakes alive for nigh
twelve years now
and counting

And also, implying the title is a completely valid technique and one I've used several times.

IN ADDITION, that you cite exceptions basically negates, in my mind, your point.

So when you say (and this goes for everybody) that any particular title is limited in possible scope, please remember to include "speaking for myself" as a disclaimer to your comment.

Reïst wrote:There are only so many ways to use those titles. If you look at the lyrics section for "And Counting", you'll see what I mean.
Several others omitted the title altogether and implied its use.

I gotta hand it to max the cat and Steve though - they managed to pull some serious creativity on the title.

To be honest, I think 501 has more creative possibilities than "And Counting".
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Postby Reist » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:22 pm

I was more just stating the facts - at least half of the songs have a line like this - "insert # here and counting". There are exceptions, but if I had left them out of my statement, I would have been attacked for ignoring them. I'm not a scholar, dude - just a rambling kid. Don't take me so seriously.
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Postby roymond » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:28 pm

Simply Google "501" and the inspiration floods in:

- 501(c) is a provision of the United States Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. § 501(c)), listing twenty-seven types of non-profit organizations exempt from...

- 501st Legion: Vader's 1st. The worlds Definitive Imperial Costuming Organization

- Area Code 501 Map for Arkansas (where the Governor leads the public in prayer for divine intervention in the current drought...hello?)

- Blueair 501 electrostatic HEPA air purifiers use advanced Swedish technology to clean (I love advanced Swedish technology)

- Dancing With the Stars: Episode 501 (although I'm sure JB has this one sewn up)

- and of course Levis 501s, as previously noted.

- Belize ISPs for Country Code +501 (Belize, people...come on...open your minds!)

- Markarian 501 is more than 300 million light years distant from the earth. Markarian 501 was discovered on the basis of its strong UV continuum and unusually blue spectrum
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Postby Billy's Little Trip » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:50 pm

There's always satire. :P

Denim, I got your number,
I need to make you mine.
Denim, don't change your number,
8-6-7-5-5-0-1 (8-6-7-5-5-0-1)
8-6-7-5-5-0-1 (8-6-7-5-5-0-1)
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Postby erik » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:35 pm

Reïst wrote:I was more just stating the facts - at least half of the songs have a line like this - "insert # here and counting". There are exceptions, but if I had left them out of my statement, I would have been attacked for ignoring them. I'm not a scholar, dude - just a rambling kid. Don't take me so seriously.


Oh, I don't take you seriously, but as someone who has professionally dealt with other people's innumeracy in one way or another for about 8 years, it peeves my pet to hear illogic like "Look at this small sample! The terrible results PROVES that the given starting constraints will only produce terrible results."
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Postby j$ » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:44 pm

Billy's Little Trip wrote:There's always satire. :P


[looks around]

Where?
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Postby Billy's Little Trip » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:01 pm

j$ wrote:
Billy's Little Trip wrote:There's always satire. :P


[looks around]

Where?

I suck :?

.....and stop thinking what you're thinking. :shock:
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Postby Sober » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:53 pm

Don't forget about the rare error 501: not implemented.
Propaganda artist.
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Postby Ross » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:38 pm

Reïst wrote:
erik wrote:"And Counting" was not an abstract title. Neither is "501".

I'm pretty sure that when they say "abstract" they mean "terrible". There are only so many ways to use those titles. If you look at the lyrics section for "And Counting", you'll see what I mean.

Lyrics from "And Counting"
MC Eric B wrote:I rule this Songfight
number 500 and counting


Wages wrote:five years old and counting


TVsKyle wrote:20-a-million times and counting


my song wrote:50 years and counting


Several others omitted the title altogether and implied its use.

I gotta hand it to max the cat and Steve though - they managed to pull some serious creativity on the title.

To be honest, I think 501 has more creative possibilities than "And Counting".
My two bits on this. It's like you're arguing that "I love you" is a terrible line for a song because there's only one way to say that. Just pointing out that the title happens to be used on phrases a similar way doesn't seem to me to limit how different songs can be. I happen to think it's been one of the more wide open titles in a long time, 501 as well, as far as I'm concerned.
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Postby Reist » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:20 pm

Röss wrote:It's like you're arguing that "I love you" is a terrible line for a song because there's only one way to say that.

Not at all. I don't think those sayings are at all alike. "I Love You" doesn't imply any certain phrases to surround it. "And Counting" starts with a conjunction -I feel that it implies that that a different phrase will come before the word "and". "I Love You" can fit almost anywhere in a sentence.

Please don't put words in my mouth.
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Postby jb » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:51 pm

Calm, calm.

The "don't put words in my mouth" chestnut is an incendiary device on a message board. Use with caution: flames ensue.

Read this thread in the voice of Cartman, then go watch a sunset or something.
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Postby Lord of Oats » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:56 pm

Well, let me jump in, since I started this.

And Counting is a weird ass title because, like Andrew said, it starts with a conjunction. IMO, it's not a very good title, and it made it difficult to come up with anything good, for which you could also make a convincing case that you should have called it that. My entry this week is probably the first song I've entered here that I wanted to rename.

501 is actually a pretty decent title. I'm sure I'll come up with something. I just think two number-related titles that are similarly constrictive, but differ in specific content, might be overkill, and just comes off to me as Deep Throat trying too hard to be all cutesy.

If there is a problem with this title, (not really saying there is) it's that it's too open-ended, on one end, yet too closed, on the other.

And I don't see how you could argue that a number isn't abstract. A standalone number is grounded in reality? I suppose a quantity is a mostly concrete concept, but you couldn't say that it's necessarily talking about 501 of something. What's a number? It has many uses, but it's nothing unless it's referring to something. Someone has to assign it meaning before it means anything. And it's definitely not referring to anything just sitting on its own in the little box.

Voila. Abstract and open-ended. Yet two weeks in a row, I have to write about numbers. But in the former instance, I'm doing something specific with nonspecific numbers, and in the latter, I'm doing something nonspecific with a specific number. It just strikes me as a little weird.

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