At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Discuss upcoming, current, and previous song fights.
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by BriGuy92 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:31 pm

I don't know exactly how odd this may come across as, but I was listening to our song on my iPod today and thinking about how it could be fixed. I was kind of bugging me, so I figured why not edit it a bit? I spent about a half-hour this evening and voila! We now have a new version, if you will.

Not too much has changed, but I did reduce the distortion on the vocals. It's not completely gone, but there's a whole lot less of it. I also attacked a somewhat more minor issue: the drums. I redid them with different samples, so they stick out a bunch more. I really need to stop using that industrial set. I then attempted to remedy the terribly terrible rhythm of the spoken parts, but I decided against that because, by my estimation, five hours is a bit long to spend on a side project, and that's about how long it would have taken. So, now that I'm done rambling, here's a download link: http://stufftunes.googlepages.com/wekee ... veedit.mp3
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by TheTungstenSheik » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:46 pm

EIitAS, I feel your pain. I'm a firm believer in the right to be extremely weird. I also know how disheartening negative reviews can be - I think my ratio at this point must be something like 6-8% positive (not that I've entered a lot of songs yet, but still). I've spoken out more than once about being allowed to enter songs that other people aren't likely to vote for. That said, though, the freedom of the site is a door that swings both ways. The staunch mainliners who disdain the presence of songs they consider weird or amateurish can't stop us participating in the Fight, but neither can we stop them having their say about our entries. My suggestion, to both parties really, is not to take it all so personally. If someone's entire review of your song is "U SUX GTFO," (or equivalent), write it off. That kind of reviewer, you're not likely to win over, and even if you could, would you want to? If someone makes suggestions, though, take from it what you can. I'm not saying you should be trying to please everyone, or even anyone, but the worst a suggestion can do is give you something to think about. And if someone brings up something you don't know much about - say, compression - chances are they, or someone else on the boards, would be glad to explain if you ask (I mean, if you want to know).
So I guess my point more or less boils down to "do your own thing, and don't let the Man get you down."

Oh, and sorry about calling your song "metal". I guess I'm not really familiar with Hardcore as a genre unto itself. Heh.
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by Teplin » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:31 pm

Generic wrote:I shouldn't be made to feel ashamed to express a distaste for a song.
I agree. We can't make ourselves like everything, and we shouldn't be expected to have to pretend that we do.

And I agree that the "it's because I'm different" argument can be a strawman, that people can use it to avoid legitimate constructive criticism. And I don't know enough about Art Show's history here to know if that's the case for him. I just don't believe that it's always a strawman... sometimes it seems to be true.

There's a difference between expressing your distaste, and treating people with derision. Too often, I see the latter kind of review. Rest assured, this isn't just sour grapes, because I don't even see it happening to me. I get negative reviews, sure... people may express distaste for my song, but I generally feel that it's done with respect, not with the scorn and vitriol that some members of this community get. I see them invited to "KEEP THIS SHIT TO YOURSELF!", and scolded for being trolls who are intentionally making "bad music" just to annoy the rest of us. "You can't be serious with this crap", reviewers sneer. It reeks of hubris to suggest that your musical sensibilities are so objectively right, that anyone who doesn't fit that mold can't possibly be serious about what they do. To suggest that they can't possibly care about their music and work just as hard on it as you do on yours. I can put myself in their shoes, and it sucks.

There are many reviewers on here who are up front about their dislike of certain songs without being derisive to the artists, and for that I salute them. For the others, I think a bit of humility is in order. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't have any intrinsic value. As Jan points out, music is nothing if not subjective. You don't care for it? Great, I'm not here to advocate SongLove, tell them why it didn't work for you. But reviews like "This isn't music, it's garbage. Why would you even submit this?!" are terribly arrogant, and doesn't help anyone. In fact, I feel like it hurts the community, or I wouldn't say anything at all.
Last edited by Teplin on Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by Ross » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:42 pm

"I think it's true what they say about the squeeky wheel - always getting the grease."

James Taylor
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by reve » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:48 pm

Teplin wrote: In fact, I feel like it hurts the community, or I wouldn't say anything at all.
Hear, hear.
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by Reist » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:11 pm

Teplin wrote:I see them invited to "KEEP THIS SHIT TO YOURSELF!", and scolded for being trolls who are intentionally making "bad music" just to annoy the rest of us. "You can't be serious with this crap", reviewers sneer. It reeks of hubris to suggest that your musical sensibilities are so objectively right, that anyone who doesn't fit that mold can't possibly be serious about what they do. To suggest that they can't possibly care about their music and work just as hard on it as you do on yours. I can put myself in their shoes, and it sucks.

There are many reviewers on here who are up front about their dislike of certain songs without being derisive to the artists, and for that I salute them. For the others, I think a bit of humility is in order. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't have any intrinsic value. As Jan points out, music is nothing if not subjective. You don't care for it? Great, I'm not here to advocate SongLove, tell them why it didn't work for you. But reviews like "This isn't music, it's garbage. Why would you even submit this?!" are terribly arrogant, and doesn't help anyone. In fact, I feel like it hurts the community, or I wouldn't say anything at all.
Dude, if you want to say something to me, pm me. Stop beating around the bush and making broad remarks to the whole community. This is stupid.

And to whoever else enjoys attacking my character with unbridled hostility, I'm sure you'll be glad to know that I've decided to once again (as I have until this week) tone down the attitude and frequency of my reviews in the future. It seems that everybody gets riled up when a college guy with a perma-hangover tries to do reviews in his spare time and gets pissed off when he hears songs that it seems the artist has put no effort into. Forgive me, it seems that you guys did put effort in. But I didn't know that, and some entries just sound lazy upon first listen - and lazy, hack job songs are what I feel hurts the community more than chastising remarks. That's the end of this on the boards, please. And if you still hate me, feel free to pm me.
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by Generic » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:44 pm

Wow.

Just....
wow.

Get over yourself, dude.
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by Reist » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:06 pm

Generic wrote:Wow.

Just....
wow.

Get over yourself, dude.
Why? I have to address this stuff - quoting my review from the other thread word for word and not directing it to me is something I feel has to be addressed - as stupid as it sounds, I feel like I have to at least defend my position. This is why the internet fails me as a communication device - people (including myself) take everything wrong - and apparently I'm the one taking things wrong because everybody's getting pissed off at me. But yeah, as I said - if you have a problem with what I'm saying, pm me and hopefully we can figure this out. Because I'm in disbelief at how this is all going down.
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by Billy's Little Trip » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:20 pm

Reïst wrote:That's the end of this on the boards, please. And if you still hate me, feel free to pm me.
It's not the end of it and I'm not going to PM you. But I will say that I was once you, so I know why and how you think. Trust me, it all works out just fine. Speaking your mind is a wonderful thing to take a stand on. But speaking your mind in a non douche way is an art form. Are you an artist or a protester? Both are fine.
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by Teplin » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:39 am

Reïst wrote: Dude, if you want to say something to me, pm me. Stop beating around the bush and making broad remarks to the whole community. This is stupid.

And to whoever else enjoys attacking my character with unbridled hostility, I'm sure you'll be glad to know that I've decided to once again (as I have until this week) tone down the attitude and frequency of my reviews in the future. It seems that everybody gets riled up when a college guy with a perma-hangover tries to do reviews in his spare time and gets pissed off when he hears songs that it seems the artist has put no effort into. Forgive me, it seems that you guys did put effort in. But I didn't know that, and some entries just sound lazy upon first listen - and lazy, hack job songs are what I feel hurts the community more than chastising remarks. That's the end of this on the boards, please. And if you still hate me, feel free to pm me.
Hi Reist,

I didn't PM you directly because it's honestly not directed at you and you alone. If I felt like I had a problem with you personally, yes, of course I would send you a message in private.

It was addressed to the community because it's something I see as a problem in the community at large. Your comments are some of the most recent, and that's why they stick in my mind, but they are not alone. I'm sorry that it came across to you as hate, because I don't feel that way at all. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad, and I'm not trying to pick on anyone. Since the debate is going on, I'm putting my opinions out there in the community, for everyone in the community to think about or disregard as they choose. It's something I strongly believe in, and if it's disregarded then at least I know I stood up for something I believed in.

While we're here, I think you bring up a good point. You can't tell for sure how much effort someone put into a song just by listening. After all, someone with talent, a lot of knowledge, and a mainstream sensibility can bang out something that sounds good to most people without putting in much effort at all. Imagine if you poured your heart and soul into something all week, only to be roundly dismissed as a lazy hack-artist and told to take it elsewhere. You might be reluctant to ever put that much of yourself into something the next time. I've seen it happen here. All I'm asking is why not give people the benefit of the doubt, and why not express our dislike of something without being derisive to the artist?

But anyway, it's all just my opinion. It's just my two cents and it's nothing personal against you, man. I've got no beef. As far as I'm concerned, you and I are cool. And if we're not, if you still feel like I'm hating on you, then yeah, lets talk about it privately.
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by Lord of Oats » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:50 pm

Hi Teplin,

Thank you for doing what you're doing. You're saving me and the rest of us a lot of hell.

I will say, though, that as an artist, I think it's none of your business how much effort I put into something, unless I want to tell you. But I don't want to tell you, because then you're going to judge it based on something other than what it is. Effort has almost nothing to do with the quality of the song. Inspiration, whatever that is, counts for a lot. Some of the best stuff just falls into place without any sensible explanation of why. I think it evens out in the end.

But whatever. The point is...everybody should probably avoid being hostile. It's songs on the internet. Calm down and enjoy life if you can. I often can't, but that's the whole point over here. It's therapeutic. And if someone happens to like what I do, it strengthens my fragile sense of purpose. It's hard to remember that nearly everyone here and anywhere on the internet is a real person with feelings and stuff. But it's vital to keep that in mind. Anything anyone submits is their art, and that is (or at least should be) sacred to them.
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by ujnhunter » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:32 am

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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by The Weakest Suit » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:11 pm

regarding reviews: sometime in the last two years, in some review thread, someone made the point that it's just better not to respond to any reviews, especially ones that you don't like. it never does any good, and the people reading the reviews can pretty much tell if the reviewer is being an ass or giving an honest critique. you can tell what kind of person (and by extension, musician) someone is by reading what they think of their peer's efforts. nothing you could ever write here will ever change a person so deeply as to make them change how (long-term) they interact with other people. so just suck it up. internet arguements make everyone look like idiots.
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Re: At The Hospice (We Keep Them Alive Reviews)

Post by Lord of Oats » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:33 pm

This is apparently a controversial position, but I refuse to accept that arguing on the internet is never worthwhile.

That said, responding to reviews doesn't do much good. Are you going to make them change their mind about your song? To me, it's like soliciting a tip from a customer. If they'd wanted to give you one, you'd probably already have it. So you're right about not changing minds and all that. But that doesn't make it cool to come in and act like an elitist poo head.
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