And Don King is nowhere in sight (Chaos vs. Order reviews)

Dave - so dark... · Post by **Dave - so dark...** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:58 pm

By the way, regarding you guys and DWG.

get over it.. the only thing worse than trolls, are the people that get angry at them.

Don't take criticism so personally, being harsh is part of songfight. imho.

Not to mention that DWG are fuckloads better than most of the songtrolls that i've heard on songfight.. and I have respect for the way they make their music. It's certainly alot more clever than the multitudous boy+guitar entries we get here, or the fruityloops based crap that I tend to come up with. I hope that they don't leave because of the constant antagonism they receive on the boards.

On the other hand, however. one of the members of DWG, at least, likes to be a right bastard ;P

kiss and make up, then fight some more, but make it about something other than name calling and picking on spelling, syntax or grammar. Surely teh interweb negates such things as correct english.

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:16 pm

Heh, any excuse for me to get started on music theory... C phrygian does have the same key signature as Ab major, but they sound different. The key in modal music, i.e. a song that's not in a standard major (ionian) or minor (aeolian) key (mode), is to be careful not to slip back into feeling like you're in a major or minor key.

For those who don't know, a cadence is something that brings you back to the I chord (the "one" chord, the base of the key, if you're in D minor the I chord is Dmin, if you're in F major the I chord is F). The simplest normal cadence is a dom7 chord going down a perfect fifth interval (which = 7 half steps). Whatever chord follows that dom7 chord will sound very much like the I chord. So if you're in C phrygian, you want to stay away from the chord Eb7 in general because it's hard to make it not sound like it's going to go down to Ab and change the key of the song. The best cadence to use in Phrygian is bII major to I minor. Or in the case of C phrygian, Db major to C minor. That way we have two of the most important elements of a modal tune: we have the Db note which is all that makes it different from C minor; and we don't have Eb7 which will sound like it wants to go into Ab major.

And that is just about enough OT theory for this thread. If someone wants to continue discussing modal theory go ahead and make another thread, I could do this all day.

Now I gotta go watch the Daily Show's post-debate stuff.

EDIT: And I've decided by the way to click the button for Draft.

Alacron · Post by **Alacron** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:14 am

Actually, a cadence doesn't have to resolve to the tonic, for example the deceptive cadence (ending on vi I believe?) and the half cadence (I - IV or something like that).

A good definition for "cadence" is "a progression of chords moving to a harmonic close, point of rest, or sense of resolution."

Cadence was also the name of the kid in Shallow Hal.

On topic: I will do reviews if the spirit moves me...
~~

DOWNWITHGENDER2 · Post by **DOWNWITHGENDER2** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 6:35 am

the Jazz wrote:A bunch of stuff about music theory.

Oh... I see...

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:21 am

the Jazz wrote:EDIT: And I've decided by the way to click the button for Draft.

Thanks for the review and vote the Jazz. We had loads of fun in that 7/4. Good ears on ya for hearing it cuz the groove was awful sweet for a 7 which I thank the C-monster for. Some people might have thought it was just a heavily syncopated 4, which it is after four revolutions of 7. You catch my drift!

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:29 pm

I don't see where I said a cadence has to resolve to the tonic... However, there is a reason that when we approach a chord by the dom7 a fifth above or the diminished chord a half step below, we are said to have tonicized the following chord.

IV - I is called the plagal cadence, i.e. churchy-style.
Half cadence is a cadence to the V chord.
In traditional theory, the only legitimate deceptive cadence is that which goes from V to vi. But in contemporary and/or jazz theory, any unexpected resolution (or lack thereof) counts as a deceptive cadence; furthermore, our ears have become accustomed to certain things in contemporary music such that bVII7 to Imaj is usually not a deceptive cadence, and bVII7 to bIII usually is.

Tonetripper, if you're a fan of sweet grooves in odd meters/polyrhythms you got to check out the Yellowjackets, if you aren't familiar with them already. Four Corners has some really good grooves on it.

Richard WreckdoM · Post by **Richard WreckdoM** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:45 am

This is supposed to be a review thread. If you must have a three page back and forth about your Musical theory nerd masturbation, start a new thread.

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:57 am

the Jazz wrote:Tonetripper, if you're a fan of sweet grooves in odd meters/polyrhythms you got to check out the Yellowjackets, if you aren't familiar with them already. Four Corners has some really good grooves on it.

Cool man, I'll totally check them out. Always love to hear some good progressive grooves with some good polyrhythms and odd meters. Ever heard Shudder to Think?

-Pablo

DOWNWITHGENDER2 · Post by **DOWNWITHGENDER2** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:19 am

Richard WreckdoM wrote:This is supposed to be a review thread. If you must have a three page back and forth about your Musical theory nerd masturbation, start a new thread.

He was commenting on my song retard... While you are busy crying, why not change that stupid, and retardedly large avatar?

Unit.M · Post by **Unit.M** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:26 pm

I appear to be having stupid amounts of difficulty deciding on who's going to get my vote.
I have it narrowed down to 2. TV's Kyle, and CaravanRay.

Kyle - I LOVE the muppet stylin's. My younger years come flooding back, and i have the strongest urge to listen to my C is for Cookie vinyl again. I love the way you've got two characters coming through so clearly using just voices. The Lyrics are awesome too.

CaravanRay - Theres just something so very right about this. Awesome intro, bouncy all the way through, but kinda understated at the same time. Makes me think of driving on an awesome kinda spring day with this playing. happyhappyhappy. And it even has that whole rounds / cannon thing goin on at the end, and theres a recipe for love if ever i heard one.

I think after much umm.. stuff. with the thing... that.. thinks... brain, my vote goes to CaravanRay. If i could vote twice, Kyle'd so be getting it.

JonPorobil · Post by **JonPorobil** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:57 pm

JEREMY MARTIN.

Are you by any chance from the New Orleans area? Like, maybe, the West Bank?

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:16 pm

caravanray - this is pretty fun. i guess you're trying to contrast the different parts of the song as chaos and as order? i don't know if it's coming across that well. oh here's some words. hmm, my laptop died so i'm using my desktop which is currently broadcasting in mono. i like the music, funny that the words are all chaotic until "whip..." i don't hear any mandelbrot. am i missing something?

db&ti - i like this. but i worked on it. i may be biased. nah, i still like it. j$ rocks.

down those - so you actually played this piano part? man, wmp is dumb when it comes to figuring out song lengths. it thinks this is 24 seconds. oh well. i don't see how this relates to the title. not bad tho.

draft - that noise just before the vox come in is cool. i like the sounds here. this is pretty neat. i like your strangeness. don't know what the words were at all.

eddie - pretty cool. ow, it's getting late. i like the vocal cadences. the different vocal bits fit together nicely. that bit where the guitar almost came in was cool.

hkd - everything sounds kinda off balance. may be mostly due to the vocals. very metal lyrics. the harpsicord is very nice.

jeremy - the chorus is nice. sometimes i think the guitar is great, other times not as much. feels like it's repeating itself too much by the end.

squirrels - this is fun. that little guitar line is cool. i enjoyed it thoroughly.

tvskyle - cool cadence on the vox. maybe double up the "order has to make repairs" part in the vox. "chaos" part is a bit too loud comparatively and jars. i guess the extra syllables in the chaos section are on purpose to be more chaotic. "hizouse"? really! ack, i have a headache. yuk. this is pretty fun too.

wreckdom - entropy in my apartment, eh? you seem to be taking some inspiration from pompeii in jumping all over the place in this song. think it's a bit too random for me.

1: caravanray, db&ti, draft, eddie, squirrels, tvskyle
2: hkd, jeremy
-bill

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:04 pm

Richard WreckdoM wrote:This is supposed to be a review thread. If you must have a three page back and forth about your Musical theory nerd masturbation, start a new thread.

This is supposed to be SongFight. If you must write moronic performance art and try to pass it off as music, start a new web site.

j$ · Post by j$ » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:10 am

HeuristicsInc wrote:j$ rocks.

It's true. Back and forth, uncontrollably most of the time

Thanks, Bill!

j$

EDIT to correct horrendous accidental mis-quotey thing...

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:50 am

j$ wrote:
HeuristicsInc wrote:caravanray - j$ rocks.

wow, talk about taking parts of quotes out of context!

-bill

j$ · Post by j$ » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:54 am

HeuristicsInc wrote:
j$ wrote:
HeuristicsInc wrote:caravanray - j$ rocks.

wow, talk about taking parts of quotes out of context!
-bill

Oops! Will correct that - not one for putting words in other people's mouths. (there's a rather rude gag here but to spare your sensibilities I will keep stum.)

But hopefully my cool new non-clown-related avatar balances out any monday-morning typographical mistakes.

j$

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:37 am

So at the end of it all the boy from Down Under (no, not you Denyer), Caravan Ray got my vote. Mostly cuz I have been hugely into Fractals and Chaos Theory for some time and his idea seemed very much about the title. Cheers!!!!

-Pablo

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:00 pm

I voted for Eddie Fuckin' Bangs!

DOWNWITHGENDER2 · Post by **DOWNWITHGENDER2** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:47 pm

Wow... I really can't believe I won, I assumed that all songfighters hated me and thus wouldn't vote for me, thanks to those whom did though,

Unit.M · Post by **Unit.M** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:10 pm

hey wow! an instrumental won! awesome!
well done dwg.

and look! we got 3 votes! 3 MF'ing VOTES!
im so happy

We didnt think we'd get more than the one that was mentioned on the boards. Today is a good day.

Jim of Seattle · Post by **Jim of Seattle** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:14 am

Hey, congratulations for winning with your instrumental. Hmmm....

Fried · Post by **Fried** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:55 am

Nice win. Wow, the almost crappiest song won a fight. I have never seen that happen before. You must be proud.