Commit your tune to Sacrifice! (C&S review thread)

[kaz]

I'd like to add my two cents to this discussion, whether you want it or not. Jim and glenny make excellent points.

I think the problem that's being highlighted here is that boiling it down to a letter grade doesn't give an opinion of how the song could be better. Sure, I'm happy to get an A- because for the most part I've done my job... but what I really want to know is what could I have done differently to get an A+? Frankly if I got a flat F- I'd be pissed, not because I wrote a shitty song but because I'd likely get the same grade next week too without some ideas for improvement. I look back on my first few entries, and I loved those songs from a songwriting perspective. But the production was largely cruddy, and the only reason I kept coming back is that the reviewers gave specfic things I was doing wrong. For which I'm grateful, of course. Detailed subjective feedback is gold here. For me, that's a sizable component of the learning process. That's part of the reason why I'm here - unlike friends and family, no one here is under social obligation to be nice to me. And the people here have opinions that are of high value because we all share the same goals and experiences.

If you're going to write a "likability" review you might as well save yourself some time and just vote for your favorites.

Furthermore Nobody et al summed it up nicely - writing reviews improves your skills because it teaches you to be critical and specific in a way that will help you analyze and improve your own work.

Ultimately, yes, write reviews however you want - they're appreciated in any form. But sparse details will likely be met with indifference at best, anger at worst.

[Spud]

Even American Idol has 3 judges....How many times has Simon said someone was awful while the other two said they were great? Sheesh, I just wanted to give my review in the manner in which I liked because to me a person may or may not get my music and thats fine...For instance Jims review of my song said the music was spacey...well that's friggin awesome because it was supposed to be, hence the spaceship sounding stuff at the beginning and the end...I wanted to be like the song was landing, delivering, and then leaving...he said exactly what I wanted to hear but at the same time he just didn't get it, whereas someone else probably did. So you see I just want to know if a song is decent or not...the specifics to me are really kind of pointless because hey, maybe they just dont get it!.....However, if 10 people tell me its awful then by god that means something to me.

Yes, and each of the three judges actually says something. Don't be afraid to lay it out there and let the buyer beware. He/She will likely take it with a grain of salt in any case. At least it's something. My favorite review of all times was "Hey guys, buy a three-prong adapter!" by Frankie Big Face. If he would have taken your approach, he would have simply given us a "D - ear pain", and we would have never bought that three-prong adapter, we might not have continued, and there would be no Song Fight! today.

[William Lane]

when I review your song I do it as much for me as for you.

Funny, I was coming back online just now to write the very same thought. I've learned way more by reviewing other people than by getting reviewed. (Not to say I don't love that dopamine rush when I get a good review, I'm still living off some of my "Dodged a Bullet" reviews...) Something about having to organize your thoughts into coherent sentences that makes it hit home or something. I read once that the best way to learn how to play a video game is to watch someone who's really good at it already AND someone who gets killed on Level 1 every time.

As for being more critical, the big problem with writing a really critical review here is that you're doing so into a vacuum. Usually I have no idea if the person I'm reviewing is some fragile soul who just needs to be validated for having written a song at all, or a hardened veteran who could care less what anyone thinks. Without that crucial context, I think it's better to err on the gentler side. "You got to be kind", tee hee.

So I'll take this moment to officially state: When I first came on Song Fight in 2003 I feel like I was sort of a dick. I'm hereby apologizing most sincerely if that was the case, to anyone who is still around now and was also around then, and who thought I was a dick, and who still may have that impression. I'm pretty embarrassed when I think back on some of the shit I spewed at you people. I'm sorry, I want to be nicer.

I want you and everyone else to know that I never meant to imply that your reviews are not sound Jim and its probably a good thing for new artist....I couldn't say one way or the other because I am indeed one of those vets that could care less...Ive been doing this since I was nine years old and I am now forty eight. I enjoy it very much and to me it is all art and creation and that's really all that matters to me. I pretty much make music for myself, for my own satisfaction. If I can give satisfaction to someone else in the process then that just makes it doubly "awesome" better than fantastic..lol. I think maybe you thought I was specifically talking about you when I gave my opinion about long winded reviews. I wasnt, I feel the same about all critics be it music, movies, etc. I never have paid any attention to them because I heard awesome songs that had horrible reviews and Ive seen really great movies that got the same. Its all perception and opinion, there is no right or wrong way...there is only the artist way...that's what makes them great! and not like everyone else.
Sorry for the misunderstanding and if anyone wants to know the specifics of why I graded their song like I did, I will be more than happy to give details...all you have to do is ask me.

[RangerDenni]

First of all, I think it's a little silly that my song would have caused "ear pain." I actually was honestly taken aback because it seemed to come from the left of the field. If you'd (Mr. William Lane) said "you didn't spend any time on this song (which you couldn't have known) and I hate your voice" I would have been okay with this. I don't have a universally lovely woman-voice. I have to Try.

That said, what I do have, I work well with and I am positive I know what Im doing (barring the off mistake and the sometimes poorly staged engineering when I do things by myself and not on Psychotics tracks, although I AM improving). When reviews start making me feel like *I* just SUCK, I have to back up, because I've been doing this for a while. I may have made a mistake, but reviews that make me feel like I suck are wrong. So I get over it, eat chocolate and take a bubble bath, and write a better song.

Your review made me giggle. I suppose I should take it more seriously and appeal more to the common listener with a universally appealing song (not to say that you are common!! x); but this week it was a little Thingy I am doing. I might be grilling you more in the future if I make a Serious Go at a Normal Person-type song and you are so cursory, so look out!

Now, on writing; I don't like to be critical and don't want to hurt feelings. I am TERRIFIED of offending people and have still never let loose in a review. I DO realize I owe others more than this, and Im trying. all I can say is to be patient, because I do not come from a past that has rewarded me for being honest with my views and opinions. I also feel woefully ill equipped to discuss sound in reviews because I simply don't have the vocabulary...or at least, I think I don't. I'm probably short changing myself. I probably know more than I think I do. I shall try to give this..Criticism, but I will do it in my own way.

[William Lane]

First of all, I think it's a little silly that my song would have caused "ear pain." I actually was honestly taken aback because it seemed to come from the left of the field. If you'd (Mr. William Lane) said "you didn't spend any time on this song (which you couldn't have known) and I hate your voice" I would have been okay with this. I don't have a universally lovely woman-voice. I have to Try.

That said, what I do have, I work well with and I am positive I know what Im doing (barring the off mistake and the sometimes poorly staged engineering when I do things by myself and not on Psychotics tracks, although I AM improving). When reviews start making me feel like *I* just SUCK, I have to back up, because I've been doing this for a while. I may have made a mistake, but reviews that make me feel like I suck are wrong. So I get over it, eat chocolate and take a bubble bath, and write a better song.

Your review made me giggle. I suppose I should take it more seriously and appeal more to the common listener with a universally appealing song (not to say that you are common!! x); but this week it was a little Thingy I am doing. I might be grilling you more in the future if I make a Serious Go at a Normal Person-type song and you are so cursory, so look out!

Now, on writing; I don't like to be critical and don't want to hurt feelings. I am TERRIFIED of offending people and have still never let loose in a review. I DO realize I owe others more than this, and Im trying. all I can say is to be patient, because I do not come from a past that has rewarded me for being honest with my views and opinions. I also feel woefully ill equipped to discuss sound in reviews because I simply don't have the vocabulary...or at least, I think I don't. I'm probably short changing myself. I probably know more than I think I do. I shall try to give this..Criticism, but I will do it in my own way.

Please do not take any offense, that is your art and your way and don't ever let anyone tell you your doing it wrong, there is no wrong. Artist learn as they go through trial and error and whatever you create, as long as your happy with it, then that is what matters. As far as pleasing the public, I am a big believer in you either have talent or you don't. For some it is a hobby and for others it is a way of life and all they care about. The truly big stars and performers just have a certain way about them that cant be created, its just who they are. They act differently, they talk differently, they walk in a room and they just have something that cant be ignored...I really should have posted that my post was my opinions and not a review. You really cant classify my post as a review because I am never going to tell anyone they should have done this or done that unless its just something obvious like (Turn your microphone up) like I did point out to Hortus Ortus. As far as your song, I personally just simply didn't like it...But hey, I cant stand to hear a Janis Joplin song either. I cant run to the off button on my stereo fast enough when I hear her...god I always thought she sounded like a dying cat... so whats that tell ya? My opinion doesn't mean diddly....next week I may love what you do...I actually did vote for one of your entries the very first week I was watching the fights, if I am not mistaken. And by the way, I do like your voice..it is kinda girlish and wonderfully womanly at the same time. Anyway, all I ask is that you never let anyone discourage you from doing what you love. Its your picture to paint and no one can tell you how to do it.

[William Lane]

I thought "Fantastic" was better than "awesome".

I think they are equal.

Nooooooo nothing is better than awesome except totally awesome...and nothing is better than totally awesome except kick ass...there is one thing better than kick ass. First one that can tell me what it is wins a vacation for two to the fabulous Bahama's. You have to pay for the trip there and back..your hotel accommodations, and all your food and anything else you buy during the entire trip, but its yours to win so get busy with those guesses! Offer ends star date 2165.356

[RangerDenni]

Please do not take any offense.....

I didn't. It takes a lot to offend me. You don't have to explain to me why you didn't like the song. I just wasn't sure how I'd inspired Ear Pain. I'd never gotten that one before. I'm thinking from your reply that it's hyperbole for the purposes of expressing an opinion on a scale of yay to ewww. Thank you for further clarification. My own reviews shall be forthcoming.

[Billy's Little Trip]

I don't have a universally lovely woman-voice

Thank goodness! Because I don't have a universally lovely musical style. Yet, BatP is a universally lovely collaboration. Go figure.

“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” ~Randolph Frederick "Randy" Pausch

[William Lane]

I don't have a universally lovely woman-voice

Thank goodness! Because I don't have a universally lovely musical style. Yet, BatP is a universally lovely collaboration. Go figure.

“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” ~Randolph Frederick "Randy" Pausch

I hear ya, I am a horrible singer...never was much on that department. I like writing the songs, putting them together, stuff like that. There are those who try to be kind and say I have a good voice and stuff but I know my voice sucks unless I am singing anything other than old style country, which I hate to sing..lol. Kinda like that, I am good at math but its the subject I hate the most thing. I write a lot of different Genres of music and have written some for a woman's voice. I like writing the pop songs but alas cant sing them to save my ass. But I do enjoy it so.

[William Lane]

Please do not take any offense.....

I didn't. It takes a lot to offend me. You don't have to explain to me why you didn't like the song. I just wasn't sure how I'd inspired Ear Pain. I'd never gotten that one before. I'm thinking from your reply that it's hyperbole for the purposes of expressing an opinion on a scale of yay to ewww. Thank you for further clarification. My own reviews shall be forthcoming.

Exactly...just a wide scale to express my opinions in increments that don't stray to far from one another. I would say as long as I am not throwing up...its musical art of some form...lol

[Jim of Seattle]

All this talk about reviews, and William, you and I are the only ones who have actually _>>>>__DONE ANY__<<<<__!!

[William Lane]

All this talk about reviews, and William, you and I are the only ones who have actually _>>>>__DONE ANY__<<<<__!!

I was just reading over these post and had just thought to myself the same exact thing. I was thinking, is anyone else going to write a review? and then I scrolled down and read this. I also realize now that it isn't fair to just grade without a reason for my opinion so from now on when I write a review I will still grade but with a small explanation of the main reason...Like for instance..I gave Hortus Ortus an A minus simply because the volume of his voice was so low I couldn't hear it. If not for that, it would have been an A.

Now as for myself...if anyone reviews my songs in the future...you don't need to break it down...save yourself some time and just tell me if ya liked it or not. My music is so very different from one song to the next in every aspect that it would not really matter. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and your time that goes into it though. I really do

[Hortus Ortus]

Ok....look out...one half of Hortus Ortus here (Darren)...... REVIEWS!

Jim Of Seattle.....I really like what you are doing with your voice(s). You used the word "somnambulant" for our song. I think the word applies to yours as well. It's a very nicely composed song with an interesting hook. Personally I don't like the slow plodding pace.

The Older Brothers.....The beginning sounds like the intro to an 80's TV cop show. Now that I hear the chorus, that sounds like the theme song to a 80's TV sitcom. These are not put-downs, or complaints...just observations. It certainly is a catchy hook! I love the instrumentation.

DJ Ranger Den....What a cool voice! Fun lyrics and melody. Less than a minute long! Love it!

The Famous William Lane....The recording has that low-bitrate MP3 sound. The overall moody sound is cool. I love the sound of the drums for this one. The chorus has a nice hook. Very cool how you ended the song. This is certainly not a "happy" song!

Glenny.....The instrumentation, rhythm...all very cool. I'm not feeling the melody though. Cool lyrics. LOVE that guitar tone and solo!

Steve Durand....The uber-distorted guitar doesn't appeal to me. The melody seems like it would go better with a different rhythm style...like an irish ditty or something.

Cord Smith...Very cool rock sound and guitar hooks. Those harmonies are cool. I like the hook on the chorus. Awesome ending!

Sonofsupercar....Instrumentation..sounds great. The intro vocalizations don't seem to belong. The arrangement is kinda confusing. I like where you were going with this, and I think if you had more time, it could be a really catchy tune.

Klownhole....The rhythm is quirky...the vocals are shouted...doesn't appeal to me.

Ken's superduper band and stuff....Nice sound...cool guitar. Interesting melody. I don't like that synth sound though...just a personal thing.

R. Mosquito.....Love the accordion! Cool lyrics. The melody needs work imho.

Otalgia......Great guitar! Great instrumentation. The devil voice is cool. I like the arrangement. Cool lyrics. Don't know that I like the melody too much though.

Paco Del Stinko....I voted for this one. When it kicks in...very cool. I love the melody. The sound of the solo guitar...very cool. Cool lyrics. I use the word "cool" too much. The contrast between the slow guitar hook and the rock part is ....very cool.

Takoyaki......A very slow instrumental. Nice melody but too slow for me. I don't like the percussion sound. Sounds like a clock through a Marshall amp.

Foobar.....Great sounding piano and instrumentation. The chord structure is very appealing to me. The melody needs more work though.

Berkeley Social Scene.....Loving the chords. Nice instrumentation and arrangement. A couple of nice hooks in here. The vocals are a tad pitchy.

[pegor]

Disclaimer:I'm not in the fight. Most if not all of these are better than I could do. Also, at some point I realized I'm desperate for something to grab my attention today. I'm bored, and that seems to have influenced my reviews. Rating from best to least-best goes like this: like+vote, like, indifferent, don't like.

Paco Del Stinko -like+vote- The hammer-on rhythm chord part really worked for me. There is a lot of dynamic variation which keeps it interesting. The lyrics and the some of the vocal delivery remind me of the Doors ( but with an aggressive guitarist)

Otalgia - indifferent - My first thought was, 'this is satire'. It seemed like cookie monster was just doing a trick with his throat more them channeling some demonic angst. the Gtr break was nice.

Hortus Ortus - indifferent - This was well executed but it didn't grab me in anyway. Also the lyrics seemed a little light on effort.

Steve Durand - don't like it - The fuzz strum was off putting. Is that a harmonica? That was nice.

R Mosquito -like+vote- I wanna squeeze box ... oom papa. I don't get the lyrics but they kept my interest.

klownhole - don't like it - I bailed out at 2min. Sorry there isn't anything there for me.

Kens super duper band and stuff - indifferent - I think if there had been more melodic variation I would have liked this. After the second verse the 80s Keytar sounding line started to get on my caffeine soaked nerves.

Takoyaki - pleasant and disqualified - Songs have to have singing to get my vote.

Jim of Seattle - indifferent - There was one point where I thought there was going to be some interesting vocal harmonizing but it was just a tease. This Sounds like a forgettable interlude in a Tim Burton soundtrack.

Cord Smith -like+vote - When I heard the hooky guitar intro I thought ELP or Yes ( a good thing to me) I was afraid the vocals weren't gonna work but they got better and the backing voice helped out a lot.

Foobar - I like it - I had trouble deciding If I should vote for this or not. The piano is so nice but the talky vocals drag it down for me.

BSS -like+vote - a vocal warble or two but you know that. I liked the Gtr solo, but I kinda lost its way towards the end. I wonder what would have happened if the drums were more double time punk toms in the chorus.

William Lane - indifferent - Well executed. I had high hope for this at the start, but it never took off. Needs doubled chorus vocals or some harmonies a dynamic change-up ... it didn't hold my interest.

Glennny - I like it - there's a lot going on here and that seems to be want I'm looking for today. I think I hate keyboard sounds.
DJ Ranger Den- like - sweet sounding but incomplete.

The Older brothers- like - Jan Hammer meets Elvis Costello. It's hard to look nerdy cool in a bright red cigarette boat. (I crack me up). I really hate keyboard sounds - this would probably grow on me if the keyboard was guitar.

sonofsupercar-like+vote - not boring. Listening on ear buds kinda low, were the vocals clipping?

[William Lane]

William Lane - indifferent - Well executed. I had high hope for this at the start, but it never took off. Needs doubled chorus vocals or some harmonies a dynamic change-up ... it didn't hold my interest.

I agree, I love the way it starts but it never took off for myself either but what I felt like it needed was some low heavy strung out rock guitar to bring it out and a Fender Strat doing some waling away on lead. Don't have any electric guitars or guitar amps at the moment. The entire thing was done with a bronze wound acoustic and not a very good one at that.

[mc3p0]

In no specific order:
glennny's tribute is well put together. The key changes are smoothly leading into the hooky chorus. Great song.
The Older Brothers offering is hilarious. That whistle breakdown:] Nice length, I like the verses.
R. Mosquito presents a versatile musical personality. Cleanly recorded, and way too short. Continue through the destruction of Ur, the rescue of baby Sargon II or even Cleopatra dropping an asp inside of her own bath. Great concept.
Berkeley Social Scene in a dreamy retro melody, but that delicate verse singing has weak spots. It's a great song.
Foobar plays piano beautifully. The vocal recording needs an upgrade.
Klownhole ah, ritual Klown sacrifice.. that goes on.. just short of nine minutes puposefully?:]
William Lane has a really interesting voice. The drums need more mixing.
Cord Smith plays creamy guitar. The overall mix seems muddy and distant without much high end.
DJ Ranger Den is quite good, perhaps this piece could be extended? The ceremony itself might be interesting..
sonofsupercar the vocals are up front, and pretty cool. Confident lyrics.
Paco del Stinko is coolness. Good vocals processing. Not sure how the theme applies.
Hortus Ortus has the best harmonies in this competition. Is that a saxophone? The rhyming needs some variation.
Steve Durand gorgeous guitar.. why no effect on the vocals? Good lyrics.
Otalgia, I want lyrics as interesting as your clean sound. Good mix and pretty voice, dude.
Takoyaki presents a little jewel. I would like to know what lyrics you might have used. Such a snappy drum sound:]
Ken's Super Duper Band 'n Stuff mixed up-front. Needs more singing and strumming variation for such a rockin' band sound.
Jim of Seattle - I love this piece. Beautiful vocal arrangement. This is a personal favorite.

[JonPorobil]

Whoa, mc3p0!!!! Long time no see!

[Mr. Car]

I should be able to get about half of the songs, randomly selected, for review tonight.
As usual, votes are for sale. Pm me for my paypal info.

Berkeley Soc- I always love this sharp but slacker indie vibe and y'all do it well. Great pre-chorus and jolty chorus. Maybe better without the last go 'round and done the piece in 3 minutes. I'm all for shoving a ten pound tune into a five pound sack.

Jim of Seattle- Soundtrack to a 70's film. Yeah, the closing credits! Exceptionally well recorded. Soundy bits are groovy as they are strategically added. Was the title of the tune "summer, spring"?

William Lane- I don't wanna say a "typical composition" but I feel like this falls squarely into a niche and just stays there. It's well done for sure and it's agreeable to the ears, and you sell the style set without argument from me.

Takoyaki- No vocals, no vote. Not even no vote, but a minus vote. You're in arrears. Kinda cool though.

Cord Smith- Riffage done right. The background guitars are mixed in the swell at the chorus like candy your mom won't let you eat until after dinner. Yeah.

Paco- Riffage done even righter. See, I used to have a Molly Hatchet/April Wine/Rick Derringer thing when I was young. This goes there. Those string plucks in the verse patterns? I mean there is almost no way you coulda F'd up the song with that nailing it down. But the pre-chorus and chorus just one ups it quite honestly. This is consistently the top guitar work in SF and you've got the architecture behind it to make great smile inducing rock songs. The strings ice it: winner/vote.

Klownhole- this is a song Calvin and Hobbes would record upon raiding Garage Band on Dad's iMac. After the deep session ends Hobbes would ask "do you think Susie Derkins will like this?" Calvin, of course scoffs, "she doesn't possess the depth of self-reflection required to see beyond the initial sonic malaise and observe how my nuanced approach to composition implicitly names her as the root cause of all my inner suffering". To which Hobbes replies "Have you picked up that ukelele recently?"

More reviews later.
Death Plunge was 10 years ago? Ironically the makita drill I used to make noise on my SG strings in the song died after
plunging 6 feet off a fence post. Strange.

[mc3p0]

Whoa, mc3p0!!!! Long time no see!

Well, since I'm extremely nearsighted that's not such a surprise:]

Listening to our contestants yet again - my speakers really show how purposeful the productions are, and those glennny lyrics are still bomb. This is a tough one.

[glennny]

MC3PO,

Thanks man! Just to be sure that you know, you may vote for multiple acts these days. In fact, there's a minimum of 2 you must vote for.

[Paco Del Stinko]

Not sure how the theme applies.

Well, my theme is based on a patient committed to a psychiatric hospital, and sacrificing another persons life to get out. It was supposed to be getting out to, most likely, another hospital, but I didn't really work that in! Here in Massachusetts, a judge or a doctor can commit you to a hospital on what is called a Section XII, written on pink paper. You get 'pink papered'. Thanks for the comments!

[jb]

Berkeley Social Scene: B
Cord Smith: C+
DJ Ranger Den: B-
Foobar: D+
glennny: A-
Hortus Ortus: D
Jim of Seattle: A-
Ken's Super Duper Band 'n Stuff: B
Klownhole: D
The Older Brothers: B+
Otalgia: C
Paco del Stinko: A-
R. Mosquito: A
sonofsupercar: A
Steve Durand: C
Takoyaki: C-
William Lane: D