Keyboards

[himynameisntmark]

I have an audition for a music school in May and I was told that I'll need my own keyboard for the course (the head of the department basically told me I'm in but I have to do the audition anyway ). The keyboard I own now is crap so I'm looking into getting a new one. Korg and Yamaha seem like good choices but I figured I would ask for any other recommendations before I go shopping seriously. Touch sensitivity is a big deal as I'll be playing quite a bit of classical and jazz; portability is huge because I'll need it for gigs and I'll be hauling it around campus with me; and MIDI capability is another necessity since I'll be using it to record as well. Effects don't play a huge part in my decision since I'll mainly use the "piano" setting but it probably wouldn't hurt to have a few choices for recording purposes. I don't want something that's going to put a serious dent in my wallet but I do want quality. Are there any particular models you recommend?

[JonPorobil]

Look for the shop owned by the unicorn. He's got some great deals.

But in all seriousness, you may need to buy multiple devices for your different purposes.

First off, what's your budget? What, to you, is a "serious dent" in your wallet?

Second of all, if you're looking for a keyboard that would supplement a real piano in your practice regimen? And if so, what role would the keyboard play in your practice?

If you're looking for a keyboard that you can use in place of a real piano, then we're got some problems.

Your music program, I assume, is serious study, so in addition to touch sensitivity, you may want to consider what kind of keys your keyboard has, and how many of them. 88-key keyboards aren't cheap, but for a music school, you'll almost certainly need all 88 keys. Plus, most keyboards have semi-weighted keys or spring-action keys. These are cheap, and work well for a lot of rock purposes, but not for classical and jazz. In fact, trying to learn classical or jazz pieces on a spring-action keyboard can be counterproductive, because your muscle memory will vary when you switch from keyboard to piano and vice-versa. Plus, it's nearly impossible to pin down your dynamics with music-school precision on a spring-action keyboard.

So for a full-out music program where you would study jazz and classical intensively, you're probably looking for a fully-weighted, 88-key keyboard. These aren't cheap. Nor are they portable.

[himynameisntmark]

A serious dent would be anything over 1000$. That's if I can't get financial assistance from my parents. I would probably use the keyboard for practice and gigs. My stage performances at the college would be on a grand as would my lessons.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... TID=205200
That's one that I've been looking at. I'll probably need the 88 keys or at least 76. I have played on spring-action keyboards (I actually own one now) and I hated it. I want something as close to a real piano as I can get.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Congrats on the music school thing, HMNIM. Wish i could help on the keyboard question, but I don't know much about homosexual instruments. But Jon is great with that stuff, so I'd take his advice.

[JonPorobil]

I feel your pain with regard to playing on spring keys. I got a lot more comfortable when I stopped trying to treat my keyboards like real pianos. There's certain things you can do with spring-action keys that you can't do on a real piano (most rock keyboardists get used to sliding all over the board, and it's hard to beat the repeating speed on a spring key that doesn't have to go down as far as a fully-weighted key).

Anyway, I hate to deliver the bad news, but if you want something as close to the real thing as possible, it's not going to be very portable. You'll be able to lug it around, but it'll be heavy. You can't have weighted keys without, y'know, weight.

Long term, I'm thinking you'll eventually want to have one 76-to-88-key weighted keyboard for piano-like uses, and one smaller and more portable one for carrying around and for use in rock gigs. That might not be financially feasible right now, so you're going to have to choose between portability and key quality.

What's your current keyboard, by the way?

[himynameisntmark]

Weight isn't really an issue (I've had to haul marimbas around in the past), it's more about the setup. A lot of the keyboards with weighted keys come with built-in stands which are just as heavy as the keyboard itself. But I see your point about getting two keyboards and I may have to resort to that. Kind of financially inconvenient but probably worth it. I'd go with portable first seeing as how I could just spend extra time at school on real pianos to practice. Do you recommend any particular brands/models for me to look at?

Right now I own a Panasonic SX-KC211.

[Henrietta]

Maybe you could ask the department head? He/she would prolly have good insight as to which models are suitable for your classes. Good luck! (Not that you need it.)

[JonPorobil]

Weight isn't really an issue (I've had to haul marimbas around in the past), it's more about the setup. A lot of the keyboards with weighted keys come with built-in stands which are just as heavy as the keyboard itself. But I see your point about getting two keyboards and I may have to resort to that. Kind of financially inconvenient but probably worth it. I'd go with portable first seeing as how I could just spend extra time at school on real pianos to practice. Do you recommend any particular brands/models for me to look at?

Right now I own a Panasonic SX-KC211.

Yeah, your keyboard is a lot like my first keyboard (Casio CTK-541, which still shows up from time to time in my Songfight entries). Hang on to it; you never know when you'll find a use for it.

I second Henrietta's idea of asking someone from your school. Korg and Yamaha are both names with untouchable brand reliability, but (if I'm not mistaken) Korg is better known for synthesizers, and not as much for real instrument simulations. I'd go with Yamaha. This one, for instance has the voice and MIDI features you're looking for, plus 88 weighted keys, but the copy is a little unclear as to whether the keyboard can be detached from the stand. (Pedals are a plus, though, right?).

There do exist weighted 76- or 88-key boards that don't have built-in bodies or stands. You have to poke a little deeper, but they're out there. Here's one on eBay, but it's hard to tell how high it'll go.

Helping you search is actually quite useful for me, as well, because I'm probably going to finance a high-end weighted keyboard myself in the next six months or so. God do I miss having a piano.

[ken]

Nord Electro. May be out of your budget, but totally worth it.

[JonPorobil]

Oooh, those look sweet. The reviews consistently cite a weak-sounding acoustic piano voice, though, which makes it sound to me like it's not what HMNIM is looking for. But I sure want one now.

[himynameisntmark]

I'd go with Yamaha. This one, for instance has the voice and MIDI features you're looking for, plus 88 weighted keys, but the copy is a little unclear as to whether the keyboard can be detached from the stand. (Pedals are a plus, though, right?). There do exist weighted 76- or 88-key boards that don't have built-in bodies or stands. You have to poke a little deeper, but they're out there. Here's one on eBay, but it's hard to tell how high it'll go.

My piano teacher used to teach at a store that sold only pianos and keyboards. That's where I plan to look at Yamahas and I think I remember a few of them having stands that weren't too bad. I'll see if I can find those there. And yes, pedals (esp. sustain) are very important.

God do I miss having a piano.

If I could take my upright with me, I would. In a heartbeat.

Nord Electro. May be out of your budget, but totally worth it.

Slightly out of my price range. And the "weak-sounding acoustic piano voice" isn't all that encouraging. But they do look awesome. At the moment, though, I'm looking at the Korg X50 (at least for recording and gigs). I know a few people who have and recommend that keyboard.

[Spud]

I am pretty sure that there a few songfighters here who would dispute the "weak-sounding acoustic piano" review. Anyone?
Personally, we use a Nord Lead 2, but I would love to get an Electro to complete the package.
SPUD

[JonPorobil]

I'm looking at the Korg X50 (at least for recording and gigs). I know a few people who have and recommend that keyboard.

I believe that the Korg X50 is what Reist has. You might want to ask him about it.

I have a Korg X5D, which is its baby sister, which fewer features, less control, etc.

[himynameisntmark]

I believe that the Korg X50 is what Reist has. You might want to ask him about it.

He's actually one of the people I know who owns one. Already asked him.

I have a Korg X5D, which is its baby sister, which fewer features, less control, etc.

Looks pretty sweet but some of the reviewers commented on weak piano sounds. What's your opinion?
Since I have no idea what kinds of gigs I'll be doing yet, I'm going to assume I'll need good piano sounds. The people who reviewed the X50 said it had good/great piano sounds.

I am pretty sure that there a few songfighters here who would dispute the "weak-sounding acoustic piano" review. Anyone?
Personally, we use a Nord Lead 2, but I would love to get an Electro to complete the package.
SPUD

That's why I'm here; to get the opinions of people who use this equipment on a regular basis.

[JonPorobil]

Looks pretty sweet but some of the reviewers commented on weak piano sounds. What's your opinion?
Since I have no idea what kinds of gigs I'll be doing yet, I'm going to assume I'll need good piano sounds. The people who reviewed the X50 said it had good/great piano sounds.

I haven't had any complaints about the piano sound on the X5D, but I haven't used its piano voice in any of my Songfight entries yet. Its organ voice is in my "Walking the Border" and the IRC BFF's "Back from Juvie," though; I think it works well in settings like that. I can record something using the piano voice on my X5D if you're interested. I've heard what Reist has done with the X50, and it sounds pretty real to me.

My main problem with the X5D is its durability. I've broken the action on two keys already while transporting it to practices and gigs. I managed to fix one with some finely-whittled plastic and superglue, but the other one is being held down with a zip-tie, and it's difficult to play now.

I think, for the money you're willing to put down, you can do a lot better than what I've got right now.

I also think that Ken really knows what he's talking about, so his recommendations shouldn't be dismissed lightly. If he recommends something more within your budget, I'd go with that.

[jb]

You could always get a laptop and feed a USB keyboard controller through it. Play any sound you want that way, good or bad, and superuberportable.

[ken]

JB makes a good point. Using a controller and Reason give you a very flexible and powerful system.

[himynameisntmark]

I can record something using the piano voice on my X5D if you're interested.

That would be awesome, if you don't mind.

My main problem with the X5D is its durability. I've broken the action on two keys already while transporting it to practices and gigs. I managed to fix one with some finely-whittled plastic and superglue, but the other one is being held down with a zip-tie, and it's difficult to play now.

With the exception of my saxophone, I'm extremely careful when hauling my instruments around. Still, some durability would be good.

You could always get a laptop and feed a USB keyboard controller through it. Play any sound you want that way, good or bad, and superuberportable.

I've thought about that, actually. I own a mac and the GarageBand sounds are really good. Would it still work for gigs, though?

[jeff robertson]

Let me preface this by saying that this is a serious question, not trolling.

Does the quality of sound in a keyboard used for live gigs really matter much? In a club, playing through a sound system run by a sound guy that probably lost his hearing years ago, with guitars and cymbals shredding everyone's eardrums, and depending on what kind of place it is large portions of the audience drunk.. is anyone going to be able to tell if the keyboard patches sound anything like the instruments they're supposed to sound like?

For recording, it doubly doesn't matter because you'll probably end up using it as a controller for virtual instruments anyway (as others have pointed out already).

[JonPorobil]

Let me preface this by saying that this is a serious question, not trolling.

Does the quality of sound in a keyboard used for live gigs really matter much?

My Casio (and the screaming fans at the shows I played in college) support your argument.

[himynameisntmark]

Does the quality of sound in a keyboard used for live gigs really matter much? In a club, playing through a sound system run by a sound guy that probably lost his hearing years ago, with guitars and cymbals shredding everyone's eardrums, and depending on what kind of place it is large portions of the audience drunk.. is anyone going to be able to tell if the keyboard patches sound anything like the instruments they're supposed to sound like?

Good question, and to anyone else it probably wouldn't matter. But given the calibre of the school I'm auditioning for and the fact that I, personally, care about the quality of sound, I would like a good piano sound. Even if the drunk people don't care if it sounds good, I will.