iMac power problem

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iMac power problem

Post by Caravan Ray »

Has anyone else ever had power up problems with an iMac?

Mine is about 2 years old. (http://www.apple.com/support/imac/g5/). And everytime we have a power cut - the thing won't start again. For a few days. Then it does start again. It is happened about 4 times to me now and is becoming quite annoying.

First time, I pulled the plug out while it was on, and it wouldn't re-start when I plugged it back in. No sound, no fan, no nothing. Just dead. I called AppleCare and took it to a local fixer - and they just said, "It worked fine when we turned it on - there is no problem"

And it was fine. Until I moved house a few months ago. Again - I probably just pulled the plug without thinking to turn it off. Plugged in at the new house - nothing. I called Apple care again and got ready to pack it up to take for service again - when, on trying one last push of the start button - up it starts! Happy as Larry.

2 weeks ago - we had a sudden blackout for an hour or so. Computer plays dead again for 2 days. Then on Mon morning when I again decide to take it for service - suddenly it works again.

And now - yesterday I had an electrician doing work at home. Again - I forgot to turn computer off, and he cut the power. Now computer dead again.


I suppose I should go and take it for a service this time - even if it does start again later. I just have a feeling they will only say again that they can't find a problem. There is clearly something wrong. Maybe they can replace something. But when I google "iMac won't start power cut" it becomes very clear I am not alone here. It seems to be a very common problem and a lot of people on various forums describing exactly the same problem. And no other solutions than ...oh, and it suddenly worked again!

Anyone ever had the problem here.

Naturally - I have done all the usual stuff and checked power source, changed power leads etc etc. I have tried all the re-setting PRAM stuff suggested on the Apple website. It appear the only way to get it going again is to wait about 2 days - plug it in at a different powerpoint - and it may randomly decide to start again. It appears to be a very illogical problem
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

Next time, while unplugged, take the battery out and wait a minute. It works on my laptop when I have that problem.
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Caravan Ray »

Billy's Little Trip wrote:Next time, while unplugged, take the battery out and wait a minute. It works on my laptop when I have that problem.
It is a desk top. It doesn't have a battery. Well it does I suppose somewhere, but not one you can just pull out willy nilly
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Caravan Ray »

...and surprise surprise! Monday morning - just before packing up computer to take to service dudes - one last test - hey presto! it starts again. Good as new.

Does anyone know of any reason why a computer may play dead for 2 days after a power cut and then spring back to life.

This is 4 times now. Pattern the same every time:

- Sudden power cut while computer is on (in "sleep" mode each time)
- Computer will not re-start. Completely dead.
- After 2 days - computer suddenly works perfectly again and powers up without a problem.

Frustrating. And confusing.
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

Oh, the way you described things, it sounded like a lap top. That changes...*sigh*...things.

I'll have to go for a drive to figure this out. But I'm drinking right now, so you'll have to wait. Assuming I remember this tomorrow when I drive.
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Lunkhead »

That is pretty odd. It sounds like a short inside maybe, but I have no idea why that would magically go away. In the time between when it stops working and when it starts working again, are you moving it around at all or doing anything physical that may be rearranging its insides? Or when the power gets yanked is the iMac being pulled or jerked as well? Maybe something is loose inside.

Or maybe dust is mucking things up inside somehow. Have you tried getting a can of compressed air and blowing the insides clean?

Or possibly the power cable itself has a problem. Do you have another power cable you could swap in to test that?

I assume you've also tried plugging it in to different outlets when it's seemingly not working?

Hopefully the iMac is not like an Apple laptop. I had a broken power supply on an old MacBook due to the power cord getting accidentally yanked out over and over and it was basically a loss. The power supply was for some reason built into the motherboard, so replacing one meant replacing the other, and that would have cost more than the laptop was worth. Up till that point I thought the whole magnetic plug for the power cord was totally stupid, but then I realized it would have saved the laptop.
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Caravan Ray »

Lunkhead wrote:That is pretty odd. It sounds like a short inside maybe, but I have no idea why that would magically go away. In the time between when it stops working and when it starts working again, are you moving it around at all or doing anything physical that may be rearranging its insides? Or when the power gets yanked is the iMac being pulled or jerked as well? Maybe something is loose inside..
Yes - that was my original thought. And yes - I have moved it around a lot each time while it was dead (no time though was the cord pulled or yanked - it is power cuts at the mains) - trying different outlets on different circuits in the house. It still seems the only logical explanation... except 4 times?!?! Hard to imaginge random jiggling having such a good strike rate.

And for the last 2 occaisions - both occured on a Friday, and it both cases, I gave up trying to restart on the Sunday night - leaving the computer plugged in on my computer desk. Then - on both occaisions after being left alone overnight - it starts first go on Monday morning! (and yes - I tried exactly the same 'plug it in and leave it alone overnight' strategy on both Fri and Sat nights with no luck - it seems to need a full 2 days to 'recuperate'!)

It is bizarre. I could understand if the time lag between not working and working was a matter of minutes or even an hour or so - it could be a cool down or dissipate charge thing or something like that. But 2 days?!?! Weird.
Lunkhead wrote: Or maybe dust is mucking things up inside somehow. Have you tried getting a can of compressed air and blowing the insides clean?.
That sounds like a good idea. It could be the problem. Probably more likely than something being loose. Would I just open up the little flap on the bottom and give it a blast?
Lunkhead wrote: Or possibly the power cable itself has a problem. Do you have another power cable you could swap in to test that?
I assume you've also tried plugging it in to different outlets when it's seemingly not working?
Yeah - been there, done that on both of those
Lunkhead wrote:
Hopefully the iMac is not like an Apple laptop. I had a broken power supply on an old MacBook due to the power cord getting accidentally yanked out over and over and it was basically a loss. The power supply was for some reason built into the motherboard, so replacing one meant replacing the other, and that would have cost more than the laptop was worth. Up till that point I thought the whole magnetic plug for the power cord was totally stupid, but then I realized it would have saved the laptop.
Now I am working again - I can't decide if I should pursue Applecare. I'm pretty sure the local guys here who are an agent will probably just either say "we can't see a problem" or "we better send that off to Sydney to get the Apple people to look at it" - and then I will be looking at having no computer for weeks. I was actually disappointed when it started this morning. I don't mind sending a non-working machine away, but now it is working again....
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Lunkhead »

Caravan Ray wrote:
Lunkhead wrote: Or maybe dust is mucking things up inside somehow. Have you tried getting a can of compressed air and blowing the insides clean?.
That sounds like a good idea. It could be the problem. Probably more likely than something being loose. Would I just open up the little flap on the bottom and give it a blast?
Yeah, just try to blast the air in such a way that the gunk inside has another opening to be blown out. If you are feeling adventurous you could easily find a video explaining how to open up your iMac. Opening it would allow you to clean it more thoroughly. With the aluminum iMacs, though, getting into the case is apparently a non-trivial process, involving using a suction up to pull the glass cover off the screen, then dealing with some tricky screws (lol).

I think you probably don't have much choice other than to bring it in for an official Apple check-up. Things aren't like in "the old days" when you could just crack open your Mac with ease and muck about to resolve non-serious issues yourself.
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

edit: I didn't realize I babbled so much, but thinking out loud is my process and I refuse to delete it. Just skip down to the bold part and start there.

Ok, as promised. An early morning surf, two cups of coffee and a drive home got my brain spaghetti sparking.
Here's how I'm seeing it from all explained thus far.
1. Power cuts via power outage or sudden unplugging.
2. Plugging it back in or power comes back and nothing works.

Thinking from the point of restarting:
1. The odd thing here is that you don't even see lights or a fan kick on. This gets me thinking first of a power cord or outlts, but you've tried other power cords and other outlets, so I'm mentally removing that from my breakdown.

2. The male prongs or how ever the imac receives the power cord. I see Lunk mentioned a magnetic receptor. Damn I really dislike those. But generally one of the first things people do is jiggle or make sure that cord is plugged in, which would result in some kind of response, even if it goes on and off. Plus the whole "it's works after it sits for 2 days" thing.

3. It starts working after 2 days of sitting plugged in. I'm no expert with personal computers and know almost nothing about imacs or any apple thing. BUT I do know about the automated computer systems in my business that I sell and I am the manufacturer warranty for, and they are more involved and powerful than any of my PCs. I'm a good trouble shooter.

4. When it does start working, you say it starts right up like nothing was wrong. This is something that annoys the fuck out of me when this happen. Yes, I'm happy it works, but no explanation does not fly with me.

So number 3 above is our problem area. Let's focus on the "works after 2 days thing". That's just too damn convenient to overlook. This has to be our problem area. So let's breakdown this part.

Ok, so we know we have power going to the computer, but no power going to the "second" switch inline which is to power the motherboard. If the motherboard had even a little power, it would react with fans coming on or a power light, etc. (unless it's a bad board, but we know it's not in this situation)

1. Every system I work with has some form of a system power management. It's the only thing between the power cord and the motherboard, "pretty much". It's the part that delivers proper voltage to pretty much every thing, like fans, power button, boards, etc.

2. With my systems, I have spike control capacitors that store power so that the cpu never gets a spike or drop in power, otherwise it would shutdown a system or worse, damage the intricate electronics.

There are several ways that I've had to reset my power management or system management when I don't have backup power functioning correctly.

Ok, here's the tough part, so you'll have to be my eyes here.
1. I know you have a power button to turn on the computer, but do you have a power switch or button on the back of the tower or what ever your computer has? Maybe a reset?
2. This is a very important step. Disconnect the power cord and wait a minute. Even if you had it plugged in and it's not working, just unplug it anyway.
3. Plug the cord into the wall outlet, but not into the computer yet.
4. Now, what you are going to do next is at the SAME time, you are going to press the power button and hold it AND THEN plug the cord into the computer. If it's a switch, flip it to on, then plug in the cord. If the only power button you have is on the front, press and hold that button as you plug in the power cord.
5. After you plug in the power cord while holding the power button on, let go of the power button. Leave cord plugged in.
6. Now simply press the power button on the computer and bingo, you are back in business.

What you are doing here is giving your system management a zap of juice. Once it gets that zap, it resets. This will not hurt anything. The power/system manager has shut down to save your computer's life. It's your computer's body guard. The sudden power outage tells it to protect it, which it does, but after it can't anymore it shuts down everything. So all it needs is a jump start to reset and once it starts, it gets all the juice it needs. I'm convinced that the "2 days plugged in and it works" thing is the power surge/backup needs to be at full charge to reset. It takes that long because it's a trickle charge and when you get a sudden power outage, the transformer powers down slowly, sometimes as long as 30 or 40 seconds. But your system manager is meant for spikes and drops in voltage that last milliseconds. Your system manager is in full wide open mode while the computer is in operation and releases all of it's stored power in one big burst to meet the power needs of the computer when it looses power. Why Apple won't let a system reset without a full charge is lame and I'm sure if they had a system reset button inside the machine somewhere, you would have noticed it by now.

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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Caravan Ray »

Billy's Little Trip wrote:
Ok, here's the tough part, so you'll have to be my eyes here.
1. I know you have a power button to turn on the computer, but do you have a power switch or button on the back of the tower or what ever your computer has? Maybe a reset?
2. This is a very important step. Disconnect the power cord and wait a minute. Even if you had it plugged in and it's not working, just unplug it anyway.
3. Plug the cord into the wall outlet, but not into the computer yet.
4. Now, what you are going to do next is at the SAME time, you are going to press the power button and hold it AND THEN plug the cord into the computer. If it's a switch, flip it to on, then plug in the cord. If the only power button you have is on the front, press and hold that button as you plug in the power cord.
5. After you plug in the power cord while holding the power button on, let go of the power button. Leave cord plugged in.
6. Now simply press the power button on the computer and bingo, you are back in business.

What you are doing here is giving your system management a zap of juice. Once it gets that zap, it resets. This will not hurt anything. The power/system manager has shut down to save your computer's life. It's your computer's body guard. The sudden power outage tells it to protect it, which it does, but after it can't anymore it shuts down everything. So all it needs is a jump start to reset and once it starts, it gets all the juice it needs.
I have done that - many times. Doesn't seem to help.
What you describe is described on the Apple website as a PRAM reset (i think - or something like that)




Billy's Little Trip wrote:I'm convinced that the "2 days plugged in and it works" thing is the power surge/backup needs to be at full charge to reset. It takes that long because it's a trickle charge and when you get a sudden power outage, the transformer powers down slowly, sometimes as long as 30 or 40 seconds. But your system manager is meant for spikes and drops in voltage that last milliseconds. Your system manager is in full wide open mode while the computer is in operation and releases all of it's stored power in one big burst to meet the power needs of the computer when it looses power.
That all sounds feasible. I am not much of an electronics head - but that 2 day period for charge to dissipate sounds an awful long time. But, as I said - I have no idea what I am talking about

NB - it is not 2 days plugged in and it works. Most of that 2 days it is unplugged with me trying that re-setting stuff you describe over and over again. It is only at night I plug it in and try to restart 8 hours later. And on the Third Day - it rises again......

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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

John, you must have done it wrong. Do it again, but this time do it right. If you still can't do it right, try this.

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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Caravan Ray »

It happened again.

Another power cut and the iMac died again.

I spoke to Applecare and some boffin assured me I am not insane. There really IS something that shuts down when that happens and it takes 48 hours to reset itself.

I should be able to reset it myself by:

1. Unplug the computer's power cord.
2. Press and hold the power button for 5-10 seconds.
3. Release the power button.
4. Attach the computer’s power cable.
5. Press the power button to turn on the computer.


but I have tried that a thousand times, and that technique does not seem to work on my machine.

THe local agents said it should get a new motherboard - but they said they would not do it because they reckon Apple will probably refuse to pay them for it. They would have to send it away to Apple - by which time the computer would be working again and just get sent back to me unfixed.

My two options apparently are to either get on the phone to Apple and kick up a big stink and try to make them fix it - or buy a UPS.
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

Caravan Ray wrote: 1. Unplug the computer's power cord.
2. Press and hold the power button for 5-10 seconds.
3. Release the power button.
4. Attach the computer’s power cable.
5. Press the power button to turn on the computer.
This time, on step 3, don't release the power button. Keep holding it and plug in the power cord. And keep holding it for 10 seconds, then release it. Then wait a few seconds and press the power button again to turn it on.

I'm yelling you, that 48 hour thing is the tell. It has to be the system management unit or power management unit causing it.

Have you opened the case to see if there is a reset button of some sort?
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Niveous »

Have you tried it with a new power cord. Mac power cords are notoriously bad.
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Rabid Garfunkel »

Buy the UPS! Especially if it's your music machine... when the power cuts and the computer is still on, letting you save and shut down, you will feel like a god! Johnipotent, even.

Besides, you should have one anyway.

Just read the "in sleep mode" part. How long do the power cuts last? UPS should be good in sleep mode for (pulls imaginary electrical engineer out of ass) at least an hour or two.
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

Rabid Garfunkel wrote:Buy the UPS! Especially if it's your music machine... when the power cuts and the computer is still on, letting you save and shut down, you will feel like a god! Johnipotent, even.

Besides, you should have one anyway.
Plus I've never seen anyone with so many power outages. His village should update to something more reliable than hamster wheels.

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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Caravan Ray »

Billy's Little Trip wrote:
Rabid Garfunkel wrote:Buy the UPS! Especially if it's your music machine... when the power cuts and the computer is still on, letting you save and shut down, you will feel like a god! Johnipotent, even.

Besides, you should have one anyway.
Plus I've never seen anyone with so many power outages. His village should update to something more reliable than hamster wheels.

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2 of the events were genuine power cuts.

The other 3 were me pulling the plug out or an electrician cutting power to do work
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Caravan Ray »

Billy's Little Trip wrote: This time, on step 3, don't release the power button. Keep holding it and plug in the power cord. And keep holding it for 10 seconds, then release it. Then wait a few seconds and press the power button again to turn it on.
Niveous wrote:Have you tried it with a new power cord. Mac power cords are notoriously bad.
Done both of them
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Caravan Ray »

Billy's Little Trip wrote: I'm yelling you, that 48 hour thing is the tell. It has to be the system management unit or power management unit causing it.
Yes. That is the issue

Or rather - the issue is the reset procedure recommended doesn't seem to work for my machine.
Billy's Little Trip wrote: Have you opened the case to see if there is a reset button of some sort?
Can't open the case. Jobsy locked it all up.
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Caravan Ray »

Rabid Garfunkel wrote: Johnipotent.
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Lunkhead »

Caravan Ray wrote:Can't open the case. Jobsy locked it all up.
It's possible, but it may require suction cups, and a variety of other tools...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfLmsrMafXs
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Re: iMac power problem

Post by Billy's Little Trip »

Ok, I have no idea what a imac really looks like. I've seen them, but never really LOOK looked at them. So I googled them because I can't believe there isn't some sort of re-set method for your power management or system management.
I looked at Lunk's vid above. My gawd, that is a hard procedure to work on your computer! I've opened laptops that are easier than that. Knowing John's "non mechanically minded" demeanor, he'd break his porn machine permanently. So I wouldn't recommend him opening his up, lol.

1. What I did find out is your imac calls it an SMU, which is "system management unit". But I'm sure you have read up on this thing and knew that. But you kept saying you were resetting the "pram", which is something else.

2. I looked at a few youtubes to see what they look like inside. And sure enough, they DO have a "SMU" reset button inside. But I think it might be on newer units than yours. Because in this first vid, he has a tower and you never mentioned a tower.


3. Then I saw this kid showing how he resets the "PRAM" just using keys on his keyboard. So maybe this is your procedure. (he said it's resetted, lol)


Maybe one of these two vids will be your method. Because I can't live with the fact that your computer takes exactly 48 hours to reset itself.
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