PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES

[Sober]

Johnny, your avatar isn't a clown. This is distressing.

If you'd like, I can cut one o' them Dumbrella clown avatars for you, since I went ahead and saved them all.

[j$]

Johnny, your avatar isn't a clown. This is distressing.

If you'd like, I can cut one o' them Dumbrella clown avatars for you, since I went ahead and saved them all.

Oh, I dunno, Cartoon Network's Teen Titans is kinda clowny I need a different clown - this is just fillin' in til I find one

[Leaf]

You also forgot to close your parenthetical.

).



Sorry.

[c hack]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think rich people deserve hand outs or tax breaks or special treatment.

I think what Jazz is saying is that Kerry is basically slacking off on his job, and anyone else with a regular job who didn't go to work b/c they were too busy with something else would get canned. So in a way, he is getting special treatment. Of course, the democratic party doesn't mind b/c he's their best hope for the white house. But who's he working for, the democratic party or the people?

This is a small point though. I'm holding out for the domestic issues debate.

[jb]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think rich people deserve hand outs or tax breaks or special treatment.

I think what Jazz is saying is that Kerry is basically slacking off on his job, and anyone else with a regular job who didn't go to work b/c they were too busy with something else would get canned. So in a way, he is getting special treatment. Of course, the democratic party doesn't mind b/c he's their best hope for the white house. But who's he working for, the democratic party or the people?

This is a small point though. I'm holding out for the domestic issues debate.

So the Democratic party should lose two senators because they're running for president? Why pick on Kerry specifically with this point? I'm paying GWB's and Cheney's salary, and over the last four years Bush has taken a lot more vacation that *I* have been permitted at *my* job.

But then, we can all point out Bush's failures because of his inattention to duty. Can you point out specific areas where John Kerry has failed you as as a constituent?

And oh my god! I'm paying Arlen Specter to represent me! I DID NOT VOTE FOR HIM! AND YET I STILL PAY HIS SALARY TO FIGHT AGAINST MOST OF WHAT I HOLD DEAR. I *wish* he'd take a "vacation". That's the way the system works.

Go Hoeffel.

[DELETED]

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[Sober]

Yeah, if we're gonna whine about Kerry missing a vote here and there because he's on the campaign trail, what about Bush? I mean, he misses shit all the time, whether he's "busy" doing something else or not.

But you know, my thinking is clouded by my hatred for Bush, so don't listen to me.

[j$]

http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.asp?brd=2305

j$

[Henrietta]

This newsbyte about last night's VP debates cracked me up:

<i>"Of the 68 voters who said the debate changed their vote, 53 percent said they would now vote for President George W. Bush and 45 percent said they would now vote for Sen. John Edwards. Survey USA says a sample this size is too small to draw any conclusions."</i>

[Eric Y.]

... and speaking of vice presidents,

today's achewood particularly makes me laugh.

[roymond]

This newsbyte about last night's VP debates cracked me up:

<i>"Of the 68 voters who said the debate changed their vote, 53 percent said they would now vote for President George W. Bush and 45 percent said they would now vote for Sen. John Edwards. Survey USA says a sample this size is too small to draw any conclusions."</i>

Well, he is the education president, after all

[c hack]

So the Democratic party should lose two senators because they're running for president?

No, I was just thinking you'd be able to do a better job running for president if you gave up your post for a while. But I don't know a lot about the mechanics of these things -- I'm likely wrong.

Why pick on Kerry specifically with this point? I'm paying GWB's and Cheney's salary, and over the last four years Bush has taken a lot more vacation that *I* have been permitted at *my* job.

i hope you're not talking about camp david, b/c that doesn't count as a vacation. Also, I expect that anywhere any president goes -- vacation or white house -- he's still working.

But then, we can all point out Bush's failures because of his inattention to duty.

Wait, I'm well aware of Bush's failures in terms of WMD (not that Saddam didn't have it coming anyway), in terms of letting major corporations walk all over the public (DMCA; um, oil, etc.), and in terms of using terrorism as a way to take away our freedoms and be more like a dictator (PATRIOT act; Guantanamo, etc.), but which are the ones due to inattention?

But you know, my thinking is clouded by my hatred for Bush, so don't listen to me.

That's what I meant. When you spout hateful shit, that makes me decide to not listen to anything you have to say, because how am I supposed to know if it's grounded in unbiased information and not hearsay and conjecture?

Anyways, my take was that I was pretty impressed with both of them. Cheney, I got the impression that he didn't even have to study his facts. But goddammit if all those hand gestures didn't give me a headache. They both also ignored big questions, which left me unimpressed. They asked Cheney about Bremer report and he spun off into something else; they asked Edwards if Saddam would still be in power now had JK been president, and he answered some other question. And what the fuck is it with "let me go back and touch upon that last question for a minute, Gwen." No, you can't. It's over with. We're on a new question now. They way to deal with a problem isn't to ignore it -- are you gonna deal with Iraq like you just dealt with that awkward question? Yeah, I thought so.

They both did it. Rich mutherfuckers think they can do anything, even turn back time to the previous question. The worse bit was that they'd answer the previous question with some claptrap they'd already answered another question with! Yeah, "no child left behind," you mentioned that. What about Palestine?

Basically, I think Gwen needs more power. She should have an Alex Trebek-style button (which both Kerry and Edwards mimic anyway, wtf is up with that?) that give the debator a small electric shock when he strays off the question, and if he doesn't answer it, she should be allowed to make him go back and answer the goddamn question.

[JonPorobil]

Hey, might be fightin' words around here, but...

Was it just me, or did Cheney win that VP debate?

[j$]

According to this creepy old battle-axe, he did ...

http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/

j$

[j$]

You may have seen this one - 'satire' which attempts to slate Kerry but ends up making Bush supporters seem utterly humourless. imo, obviously.

http://www.communistsforkerry.com/

More borderline right-wing grotesquery masquerading as 'good ol' fashioned humour'

http://www.pabaah.com/

J$

[jb]

But then, we can all point out Bush's failures because of his inattention to duty.

Wait, I'm well aware of Bush's failures in terms of WMD (not that Saddam didn't have it coming anyway), in terms of letting major corporations walk all over the public (DMCA; um, oil, etc.), and in terms of using terrorism as a way to take away our freedoms and be more like a dictator (PATRIOT act; Guantanamo, etc.), but which are the ones due to inattention?

9/11

"Fahrenheit 9/11" has a nice segment about Bush's tendency to hang out at his ranch.

And here's a link: http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20031001.html

[c hack]

9/11

Yeah, I don't know about that. Maybe they got warnings, but who knows how many warnings they got every other day for stuff that never happened?

And here's a link: http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20031001.html

Wow, I didn't know it was that much. Or so little for Carter or Clinton. Granted, I'm sure they can do their work from anywhere, and I'm happy with them working in whatever comfortable place they want, but it does seem like guys like Carter and Clinton are more worthy of our respect, in that area at least.

Hey, might be fightin' words around here, but...

Was it just me, or did Cheney win that VP debate?

I don't know, Edwards got some good ones in. Notably the Halliburton stuff, and also (from the transcript):

DICK CHENEY: Gwen, I want to go back to the last comment, and then I'll come back to Israel-Palestine.

The reason they keep trying to attack Halliburton is because they want to obscure their own record.

And Senator, frankly, you have a record in the Senate that's not very distinguished. You've missed 33 out of 36 meetings in the Judiciary Committee, almost 70 percent of the meetings of the Intelligence Committee.

You've missed a lot of key votes: on tax policy, on energy, on Medicare reform.

Your hometown newspaper has taken to calling you "Senator Gone." You've got one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate.

Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session.

The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight.

In respect to Israel and Palestine [...]

GWEN IFILL: Senator Edwards, it's your turn to use 30 seconds for a complicated response...

JOHN EDWARDS: That was a complete distortion of my record. I know that won't come as a shock.

The vice president, I'm surprised to hear him talk about records. When he was one of 435 members of the United States House, he was one of 10 to vote against Head Start, one of four to vote against banning plastic weapons that can pass through metal detectors.

He voted against the Department of Education. He voted against funding for Meals on Wheels for seniors. He voted against a holiday for Martin Luther King. He voted against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela in South Africa.

It's amazing to hear him criticize either my record or John Kerry's.

GWEN IFILL: Burn!

[jb]

Yeah, it's too bad that this didn't pop into Edwards's head during the debate, but it wasn't the first time they had met. As Cheney would put it, "The fact of the matter is that" according to Salon:

"In fact, the two had met at least three times previously.

On Feb. 1, 2001, the vice president thanked Edwards by name at a Senate prayer breakfast and sat beside him during the event.

On April 8, 2001, Cheney and Edwards shook hands when they met off-camera during a taping of NBC's "Meet the Press," moderator Tim Russert said Wednesday on "Today."

On Jan. 8, 2003, the two met when the first-term North Carolina senator accompanied Elizabeth Dole to her swearing-in by Cheney as a North Carolina senator, Edwards aides also said.

Edwards didn't forget their prayer-breakfast meeting. The Democratic vice presidential candidate noted the discrepancy at a post-debate rally in a Cleveland park, calling it an example of Cheney "still not being straight with the American people."

"The vice president said that the first time I met Senator Edwards was tonight when we walked on the stage. I guess he forgot the time we sat next to each other for a couple hours about three years ago. I guess he forgot the time we met at the swearing in of another senator. So, my wife Elizabeth reminded him on the stage," Edwards said as the crowd roared.

According to Edwards' staff, Cheney replied, "Oh, yeah."

"She reminded him about the truth," Edwards told the crowd, "and come November, we're going to remind him that the American people do not want four more years of George W. Bush." "

Oh and here's a lovely picture of the two at that prayer meeting: http://www.dailykos.com/images/admin/cheney_edwards.jpg

[Lunkhead]

Have I mentioned that I went to school at Case Western Reserve University? Go Case!!! Whoo!! Class of '99 RULES!

[c hack]

Apparently I can't keep my big yap shut:

EDWARDS: (on Israel/Palestine) Well, first of all, I do agree that we've been largely absent, not entirely absent, but largely absent from the peace-making process over the last four years.

And let me just say a couple of preliminary things and then talk about where we are now.

First, the Israeli people not only have the right to defend themselves, they should defend themselves. They have an obligation to defend themselves.

I mean, if I can, just for a moment, tell you a personal story. I was in Jerusalem a couple of years ago, actually three years ago, in August of 2001, staying at the King David Hotel.

We left in the morning, headed to the airport to leave, and later in the day I found out that that same day, not far from where we were staying, the Sbarro Pizzeria was hit by a suicide bomber in Jerusalem. Fifteen people were killed. Six children were killed.

What are the Israeli people supposed to do?

C HACK: Well, obviously, send suicide bombers of their own.

EDWARDS: No, I didn't say...

C HACK: Because that's what you implied, isn't it? That the Palestinians are evil terrorists that must be destroyed? And that the Israelis are completely innocent of violence?

EDWARDS: No, I didn't imply...

C HACK: What we have here is the United States government is sanctioning -- supporting, in a bi-partisian manner -- one country's terrorists over another's. For political and financial gain.

EDWARDS: ...

C HACK: The Hackocrats take a firm stand on this issue. Fuck those violent mutherfuckers. If they want to blow each other up over some land, it only invalidates their religions. Our plan is to let them blow each other to kingdom come and then move in and take all their holy oil from that ugly desert wasteland, all the while keeping Alaska clean and pure. Next issue, Gwen.

IFILL: Who let you in here?

[Eric Y.]

that is another issue i have not been following as closely as i should be... (actually pretty much ALL issues fall into this category)... but i have never been able to understand the united states' official position of taking sides in that situation. on a daily basis we hear about atrocities committed in nearly equal numbers by both sides, so why on earth would we condemn one side and support the other? either they need left alone to just kill each other off, which would be not the greatest situation in the world, or else somebody needs to go in there and play the role of playground teacher and say "i don't care WHO started it, we're going to FINISH it right now! now you go over in your corner and you go over in your corner and just think about what you did until you can play nicely together, and if i hear so much as a peep out of either ONE of you, your playground privileges will be taken away for two whole weeks!"

[Future Boy]

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/israel/palestin.htm

http://www.mideastweb.org/misrael.htm