The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Puce wrote:Wow, perfect thread timing. I heard part of the 1812 Overture yesterday, and it reminded me that classical music can ROCK like nobodies business.

Somebody got me a gift of "heavy metal" classical music. It's pretty good. I remember Holst "Mars" was on it. Oh wait, tviyh posted on this already. Same CD.
The "Sabre Dance" was the Buffalo Sabres theme song. Awesome song for hockey.

New World Symphony of Dvorak is one of my favorites ever.
Carmina Burana is excellent to see live. A friend of mine sang in it.
I have a CD with an electronic version of Ravel ... "Pavane Pour une Infante Défunte" by William Orbit. Best classical->electronic conversion I've ever heard.
I've got that Gorecki, which is excellent... dunno which version it is, though... got a lady's head on it in silhouette.
-bill

Puce wrote:Can anyone suggest between 1 and 12 classical pieces that really make you sweat?

Mahler's 8th Symphony. Dubbed the "Symphony of a Thousand" or something, because it requires an ensemble of several hundred people to perform. Not only a gigantic orchestra is required, but two full choirs (I think). It's almost never performed, partly becuase of that, and also partly because it's really long, loud, difficult, and all over the place. I own a recording and I've made it all the way through it maybe three times. It's HARD.

I'd also recommend the loud parts of Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring". I've often called that work the heavy metal of classical music.

I hate the term "art music" because it sounds too close to "artsy-fartsy music", and also because it implies that other musics are not art. Another term I've heard used is "concert music" which I like a lot better.

JB, I agree with your whole list, almost, and am pleased to see someone with what looks to be an identical classical CD collection as me. Big fat 36-point boldface font of agreement on Gorecki's Third Symphony especially. Great for dark rainy late afternoons in Seattle with a pot of soup simmering and a glass of wine and the windows all fogged up.

I also love Steve Reich, especially "Music for a Large Ensemble". Funny you should mention him, because I spent an entire afternoon a couple weeks ago recording all my Steve Reich vinyl into mp3's for my iPod at work. Yeeeooww!!

Here are two questions: Who are the most overratted and underrated classical composers?

Underrated:
Faure
Faure
Faure
Poulenc
Satie
Howard Hanson
Henry Purcell

Overrated:
Lizst
Richard Strauss
Schumann

Jim of Seattle wrote:I hate the term "art music" because it sounds too close to "artsy-fartsy music", and also because it implies that other musics are not art.

I suspect your first reason to be closer to your true feelings. Classical, or college-trained musicians have some kind of weird inferiority complex when it comes to other musicians who came out of the school of hard knocks or whatever. I remember in college one day all us he-men Music Majors got together and nearly killed each other playing tackle football. I remember one particular play that rattled my damned skull and which I can still imagine the pain of today. A sharp pinching in the back of my head, travelling down my right side. And another play where a friend of mine blacked out for a couple seconds. That stopped the game. Pros wear pads for a reason.

I'm a pretty artsy-fartsy guy. I like artsy-fartsy people. Most of my friends are artsy-fartsy. I have no problem with it. I see a giant distinction between artsy-fartsy and goody-goody. I hate goody-goody with a fiery fucking passion.

In the context of the professor who introduced me to the term "art music", well, he might make a distinction between "art" and "pop" music. But I don't. He was a snob. He thinks "Carmen" isn't art, and said so loudly during a rehearsal for it. He was in the orchestra even! I still like him though, despite (or maybe because of) his pretensions.

Underrated:
Mozart

Overrated:
Mozart

jb wrote:I suspect your first reason to be closer to your true feelings. Classical, or college-trained musicians have some kind of weird inferiority complex when it comes to other musicians who came out of the school of hard knocks or whatever.

Underrated:
Mozart

Overrated:
Mozart

Oh, I have huge inferiority problems around all that. I feel like I'm perceived as Niles Crane all the time. I guess it's a Niles Crane complex. But I'm really not Niles Crane. I just fear people think I am. I guess I don't ever want to say "art music" to someone and have them say to me, "What, you don't think pop music is art?" and then I'd have to get into a whole stupid thing about it with him.

Strangely, I totally know what you mean about Mozart. I was sort of befuddled as to why everyone peed their pants over him, then one day I was listening quietly to something of his and I suddenly "got it". It was a cool moment. I think what you meant by your assessment is that he's considered great by everyone and his brother because everyone else and his brother says he's great. At the same time too few people really understand what makes him so great.

Partly. The thing about Mozart is that a lot of old farts like him because the music is unchallenging. A lot of bad orchestras like to play him because he's unchallenging.

A lot of music geeks like Mozart because he's all complex inside and underneath when you dig into the structure and crap.

What the former is missing is that they are old and like to eat plain grits. They're missing the real music.

What the latter is missing is also the music. When you do it right it's like "holy cow". But it's so seldom done right, because that takes more than two rehearsals leading up to a concert on the weekend. There's almost never the time to do it right, even if you have a conductor who knows how to do it right. Very frustrating. I quit playing local gigs because of that. Now I only play if a friend is in need and nobody else is available.

So since you never hear it done right, if you're an intellectual type, you wind up just going "hey, this section of the recapitulation is actually THAT section of the exposition, but upside down and transposed up a step! WOW! OMG!" That sort of thing has never interested me. My brain doesn't get caught by that and go looking for more. My brain goes "oh hey, yeah that is cool. what's on TV?"

We had a seminar with a dude from Michigan Univ. in college. He came in to conduct a group of use college string players, and some community string players, and basically gave us a clinic on chamber music.

We played a Mozart thing, some multi-movement thing, not a symphony, can't remember the name. And we played a couple of 3-minute short pieces, and "St. Paul's Suite" by Holst. We spent maybe a half hour on the 3-minute things, two hours on the Holst, and the rest of the time on the Mozart. That was over THREE DAYS. And I didn't feel like any of the time spent on the Mozart was redundant. I dunno if the audience "got it" like I did, or if any of the other players did either, but it probably ruined me for life.

Jim of Seattle wrote: I feel like I'm perceived as Niles Crane all the time. I guess it's a Niles Crane complex. But I'm really not Niles Crane. I just fear people think I am.

come to think of it, having met you, you do resemble niles crane a little bit jim

Aaaaahhh!!! Well, that's OK. He's not a bad looking guy. It's the persona I fear.

I don't think Mozart is easy at all. Or maybe it's that I am a sucky pianist, or maybe it's that I have a good enough ear to hear that it has to be done just so to be right. His piano sonatas are deceptively hard. That famous C-major sonata sounds hard with all the scales, but it's really not hard then. It's hard when it's slow and easy. For me I think it's because the music has so much "content" to it, that you have to be really good to put all that across. A lesser composer's work isn't demanding to be spoken like Mozart's.

i'd consider you a good looking fella jim (if i swung that way...)

but i'd say your very down to earth and not snobby at all. you're like bulldog in niles body

My wife told me the other day that I have an "edge". I've never thought of myself as having an "edge". That's kinda cool.

Unfortunately, enough people have told me I look like John Lithgow for me to ever think of myself as a good-looking guy (sigh). At least I'm significantly younger than John Lithgow.

This week and next (I don't know how long they'll be available) the BBC is letting you download each of the Beethoven Symphonies for free. The first five are there for the taking now. I believe they put another up each day.