BitFight?

c hack · Post by **c hack** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:44 am

HKD - Unit Z wrote:i found this just before in a search too: http://www.wayfar.net/index.php I'd so get one if i had a NES. *looks in 2nd hand shops*

I just saw one at goodwill the other day. I might have to buy it. $80 is a lot of money though. Especially for something I can emulate.

Future Boy · Post by **Future Boy** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:35 pm

I just busted out that VST that Puce linked. It's pretty easy to use. One question: When you say 4 sounds, do you mean 4 notes? So, like, if I have one sound, to be more specific you should say 'timbre', playing a 4 note chord, is that all I get? Or do you mean that there can only be 4 "intruments" playing at any given time, but that each instrument might be playing more than one note simultaneously.

In other words, are you saying that each sound used *must* be monophonic and that you can only use a maximum of 4 sounds?

Also, this VST allows you to make composite sounds out of a square wave, tri wave, and noise. Would a composite sound still be considered 1 monophonic sound? Even if, say, the tri wave was detuned from the square?

Adam! · Post by **Adam!** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:55 pm

Future Boy wrote:Reasonable Questions

It's all going to come down to HDK's as-of-yet-unposted Official Rules. To get that NES feel I personally am going to be composing my piece with one monophonic triangle wav channel and two pulse wave channels (also monophonic) as my only pitched sound sources. A quantized-noise channel will be my only percussion. On the original NES a 1-bit sample channel effectivly gives you a thrid pulse wave with variable pulse width and no way to adjust the volume. I plan on coverting some samples into 1-bit audio and using them in this channel (There's an NES ninja turtles game with a bitchin' 1-bit guitar solo played this way).

So, yeah, monophonic. I think.

Future Boy · Post by **Future Boy** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:04 pm

So on the noise channel, for drums, you wouldn't have a "hihat" and "bass drum" playing simultaneously, right? I like the idea of limiting myself to three monophonic instruments, as well. Are the pulse waves the same as the Square wave? Or are they a combo of something? Also, the sample channel would be real easy to do in Fruity, as well.

JonPorobil · Post by **JonPorobil** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:05 pm

Our old friend from Crapart has also facilitated this project. http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/midimml/

Future Boy · Post by **Future Boy** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:13 pm

Man, I really need to get a faster processor. Right now, Fruity can handle 5 of those VST simultaneously, but not 6. Which doesn't really impact mixability, but does impact listenability while composing. I'ma be forced to write the song in a different program and just import each track as midi file. And if I'm gonna do that, it might just be better to use Tom 7's program in conjunction with the other program he talks about. OI. I do not envy the peeps that wrote music for those early games.

Dave - so dark... · Post by **Dave - so dark...** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:59 pm

Future Boy wrote:I just busted out that VST that Puce linked. It's pretty easy to use. One question: When you say 4 sounds, do you mean 4 notes? So, like, if I have one sound, to be more specific you should say 'timbre', playing a 4 note chord, is that all I get? Or do you mean that there can only be 4 "intruments" playing at any given time, but that each instrument might be playing more than one note simultaneously.

In other words, are you saying that each sound used *must* be monophonic and that you can only use a maximum of 4 sounds?

Also, this VST allows you to make composite sounds out of a square wave, tri wave, and noise. Would a composite sound still be considered 1 monophonic sound? Even if, say, the tri wave was detuned from the square?

When i say 4 sounds i mean 4 notes. so, in theory you may have 20 instruments loaded into a sequencer, but no more than 4 of those instruments are allowed to make more than 4 sounds combined. Ie you may have one instrument playing a chord of 3 notes, that leaves you one more note to use.

However, i think a limit of 3 is more true to this type of sound, + 1 sound which *must* be noise, or you can choose not to use it.

Composite sounds are fine, as long as it's two or more simple wave shapes making a new single shape.

Speaking of chords, by the way, there is a trick to do fake chords for those of you who are interested. you can arpegg 3 notes really really quickly to acheive a pseudo chord.. and it just sounds so computer gamey ^^

as for the noise channel. you are correct. no hihat+bass drum. you'll have to play one at the exclusion of the other.

If you having problems running lots of those vst plugins, i've uploaded some simple sound shapes that you should be able to loop in a tracker or sequencer to get the same sort of sounds. http://www.shiniku.net/random/shapes.zip and actually, if your using fruityloops, i think these are in one of the sample directories, somewhere.

I'll post the 'official' rules closer to the 18th. I want to make them really clear to avoid people getting upset ;P

but at the moment it stands at:
1. 3 sounds (or notes) at once. + 1 "noise" (static, basically) (chords count as multiple sounds)

2. Sounds must be monophonic, but can be a composite of two or more of the basic sound shapes (square, triangle, saw, etc). but be fair - technically you can make anything out of these shapes, ie (voices and such) but i'd like the sounds to sound like they came from an old computer game.

3. There will be no 'title' as such. The tune should sound like the intro tune to a game. "Press fire to play"

I would like people to give a name to their 'game' to give us a clue to what they were aiming for.

4. any 'effects' must be made with additional instruments. Ie: delay with a quieter or longer note playing behind the main one. as such, things like flange, phasor etc are a no.

5. Entries should be mixed to mp3. If you compose a nsf or a sid, i can mix it down for you, but it may not sound the same through my synthesis as it did on yours.

Any questions, revisions or complaints before i do the final 'official' rules?

Dave - so dark... · Post by **Dave - so dark...** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 9:01 pm

by the way, i like treewave. Thanks for the link

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:42 pm

<a href="http://trikuare.cx/audio/fp/01.plq/">I have nothing to prove</a>.

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:56 pm

Also, if you're going to simulate 8-bit nostalgia, <a href="http://sidstation.com/">do it right</a>.

Dave - so dark... · Post by **Dave - so dark...** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:07 pm

fluffy wrote:Also, if you're going to simulate 8-bit nostalgia, <a href="http://sidstation.com/">do it right</a>.

:D

I know you have a sidstation. *shakes fist at you for your instant coolness* i wish you used it more in your songs.

i'm eternally jealous.

the closest i'll ever get is a hardsid, i think :/

By the way, it seems like no one has problems with the previous rules, so they become official.

Entries due on the 9th of november. You can PM me with a link to your song, or email it to me at - z at shi ni ku dot net

I'll post them up as a new poll on the 10th. (my time) which will be the 9th for most of you.

I look forward to hearing :)

EDIT: in case your curious, i'm in +8:00 for my timezone.

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:32 pm

Future Boy wrote:Man, I really need to get a faster processor. Right now, Fruity can handle 5 of those VST simultaneously, but not 6. Which doesn't really impact mixability, but does impact listenability while composing. I'ma be forced to write the song in a different program and just import each track as midi file. And if I'm gonna do that, it might just be better to use Tom 7's program in conjunction with the other program he talks about. OI. I do not envy the peeps that wrote music for those early games.

You realize that on the early games they didn't need to run CPU-hungry emulators for the sound hardware they were actually working with, right?

Though, yeah, envy probably isn't the right thing to have for them, since most of the early SID/etc. composers also had to write the actual sequencing software to compose in to begin with.

Today's video game music producers have it easy, since most of the time they're just making music as if it were on CD since it's pretty much just going to be streamed off of the game disc anyway. Which is one reason I wanted to slap the composer we hired at work for bitching about how "backwards" we were asking him to work for the Nintendo DS, which is still cartridge ROM-based and requires the composer to actually, like, work within the confines of the system (like, OMG or something). And at least with that he could still use standard MIDI authoring tools (though I still ended up having to clean up all his MIDI files to make them usable).

Yeah yeah, fluffy's whining about all the hardship of having to be the graphics programmer and sound designer for a launch title on Nintendo's next-generation handheld gaming console again. Bitch, bitch, bitch.

Dave - so dark... · Post by **Dave - so dark...** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:49 pm

Well I didn't receive any entries for this at all.. Do people want more time, or should we just forget about it?

*pouts*

Phil. Redmon. · Post by **Phil. Redmon.** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:29 am

I, for one, missed the start announcement. Perhaps a new thread, named BIT FIGHT!!!! with some JUMBO due dates in the firsst post is in order.

My guess is it just slipped by everybody.

Still sounds radfun.

-pete reinhold

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:08 am

Crap, this totally slipped my mind. I've been rather busy though.

Dave - so dark... · Post by **Dave - so dark...** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:35 am

admittedly, the time just disappeared for me.. work has been a bit hellish. i hate being a programmer sometimes. but then i remember that i get to play with all the toys, and then it's alright.

I shall make a new thread with something like Bit Fight Starteth! soon... right now i'm about 5 seconds away from collapsing from sleep dep.

c hack · Post by **c hack** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:40 am

Phil. Redmon. wrote:I, for one, missed the start announcement. Perhaps a new thread, named BIT FIGHT!!!! with some JUMBO due dates in the firsst post is in order.

YES. It's all about advertising.

Phil. Redmon. wrote:My guess is it just slipped by everybody.

Still sounds radfun.

Agreed on both points.