The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Larry B. wrote:The tonal differences between the grunge guitar and the clean piano

That is one of my favorite combinations!

Manhattan Glutton wrote:

Larry B. wrote:The tonal differences between the grunge guitar and the clean piano

That is one of my favorite combinations!

You do it well. Larry didn't.

You do it well. Larry didn't.

I liked the sound too, but I don't play piano very well yet. Still working on it.

Billy-I checked1, didnt know you only had 1 ball.
Steve- not trying to be rude, no shit. sounds like Sesame Street.
Tinder- I dont dig it.What does it matter, bet you get a lot of pussy. woops
Ross- call James Taylor
Lababrookie- just sent Billy a pic of mine, send him a pic of yours.
Cricket- lets go fishing, ill buy the beer

Pig- what the fuk- i got to save that, and dont even like that kind of stuff. good job

RE: Larry B.

Hey, thanks for the kind review and the vote! "Greek mythology" doesn't quite win the free cookie, though. I need something more specific.

I'm going to have work on mixing my vox more clearly; I've gotten a lot about "muddy vox" (heavy paraphrasing) this fight. Any suggestions, gearheads?

Larry B. wrote:

You do it well. Larry didn't.

I liked the sound too, but I don't play piano very well yet. Still working on it.

Sorry, I promised to be nicer in the follow-ups, didn't I?

I don't think it was the skill of the playing, actually. I think it was the tone of the piano. It's very fake-sounding, doesn't hit the full range of the instrument. If it were played on a real piano (or, in the case of a real piano, if it had been miked better), then it likely wouldn't have sounded so dissonant to me. Listen to Manhattan Glutton's "Back to the Well" - http://www.songfight.org/music/back_to_ ... n_bttw.mp3

The piano isn't doing anything too complicated, just that little four-note melody plus some bass notes. But it contributes to the sonic landscape of his piece brilliantly. His isn't a real piano either, but it sounds like a closer approximation than the one on your song. Maybe you can mask it with some reverb or something?

nyjm wrote:I've gotten a lot about "muddy vox" (heavy paraphrasing) this fight. Any suggestions, gearheads?

Do not record drunk or hung over.

....you are welcome, good sir.

Wow, those restrictions would pretty much keep me from recording anything, ever

lalabrookie wrote:Wow, those restrictions would pretty much keep me from recording anything, ever

Me 2 that's why I sux.

I don't think it was the skill of the playing, actually. I think it was the tone of the piano. It's very fake-sounding, doesn't hit the full range of the instrument. If it were played on a real piano (or, in the case of a real piano, if it had been miked better), then it likely wouldn't have sounded so dissonant to me.

I wonder if it could just be an intonation thing. I tune to the built in tuner on the amp, instead of to the key-board. They should be close, and obviously your ears are better than mine, but maybe you're hearing something I am not in that way. You gave me a couple of other things to think about. I honestly think the tone sounds ok though. Like I said, you've got better ears than I do. I'll definitely keep listening. Only way to get better right. Thanks! Loved the MG song Back to the Well. Wow, very well done. Did it win?

Larry B. wrote:

I don't think it was the skill of the playing, actually. I think it was the tone of the piano.

I wonder if it could just be an intonation thing.

No, it's definitely tonal. The guitar and piano parts sound like they've been recorded in different places and then shoe-horned into the same song. I would suggest:

1) be sure you ARE recording them in the same space

2) using compression, reverb and EQ and create a matching tone but complimentary levels. Often I find that my guitar and piano parts overlap since they hover (for me) around middle C. Start by rolling off the gain on the piano part: it's really hot.

3) Panning the guitar more towards the center (since it's effectively a lead part) might help as well

4) Less reverb and more prominence on the vox would probably help, too, since that's yet a THIRD part with its own separate aural identity.

Larry B wrote:Vote any way, ya gotta vote for yourself

No you don't. I told myself I'd only ever vote for myself if I thought I had the best song of the fight. Never a self-vote cast. I imagine most folks vote for themselves, though. I'm not saying it's wrong, just presenting my stubborn sense of pride. (About the only place it exists)

I'll review tomorrow AM, but gotta say that pIgpen's graphic song is super well done. Should win.

Larry B. wrote:

I don't think it was the skill of the playing, actually. I think it was the tone of the piano. It's very fake-sounding, doesn't hit the full range of the instrument. If it were played on a real piano (or, in the case of a real piano, if it had been miked better), then it likely wouldn't have sounded so dissonant to me.

I wonder if it could just be an intonation thing. I tune to the built in tuner on the amp, instead of to the key-board. They should be close, and obviously your ears are better than mine, but maybe you're hearing something I am not in that way.

I'm pretty sure it's not a tuning issue, though if you're using a keyboard, it's always best to tune to the keyboard anyway, or at least calibrate the tuner to make sure it's on the same wavelength as the keyboard. Nonetheless, I'm hearing the two instruments on pitch with one another (the piano might be a few cents sharp, not enough to make a real difference), but they just clash in a way that I'm finding grating.

I also appear to be a minority voice on this.

What kind of keyboard is it, and what voice did you use on it?

You gave me a couple of other things to think about. I honestly think the tone sounds ok though. Like I said, you've got better ears than I do. I'll definitely keep listening. Only way to get better right. Thanks! Loved the MG song Back to the Well. Wow, very well done. Did it win?

No, it came in second. Cock entered that week with one of their best songs ever, and swept the competition.

Paco Del Stinko wrote:

Larry B wrote:Vote any way, ya gotta vote for yourself

No you don't. I told myself I'd only ever vote for myself if I thought I had the best song of the fight. Never a self-vote cast

That makes two of us. Funny that we are also the same personality type with the exception of judgement and perception. I'm guessing because you were in the Army and I was partying at the beach.

What kind of keyboard is it, and what voice did you use on it?

I use a Roland EM 30 and the voice was piano 1, but it is pretty hot. I'll play around with some of the other voices. See what comes out. I'll keep in mind some of these other suggestions as well. I appreciate the feed back. Might have to subject you all to a few more songs in this same style before I get it figured out. I can take the criticism, but can you take the torture? LOL!

Larry B. wrote:

What kind of keyboard is it, and what voice did you use on it?

I use a Roland EM 30 and the voice was piano 1, but it is pretty hot. I'll play around with some of the other voices. See what comes out. I'll keep in mind some of these other suggestions as well. I appreciate the feed back. Might have to subject you all to a few more songs in this same style before I get it figured out. I can take the criticism, but can you take the torture? LOL!

You might get a better piano sound by recording it on more than one track at once, maybe using direct input on one track, and either a condenser as a room mic or a dynamic right close to the speaker on another. Then mix or bounce the two tracks together. With multiple tracks of the same piano sound, you can also use different effects on each track.

- Paul

Paul's advice is pretty good, because you'd be simulating the three-string effect of a real piano. One of the reasons that your typical pianoforte sounds so lush is because the majority of the keys actually have three strings resonating on the same note. They're all tuned to the same frequency (give or take a tenth of a cent here and there), but the fact that there's three of them ringing out at once gives it a sense of fullness - perhaps the very same fullness that's lacking in your song, Larry. You might be able to trick our ears by recording the same performance from multiple sources.

Paco Del Stinko wrote:I told myself I'd only ever vote for myself if I thought I had the best song of the fight. Never a self-vote cast. I imagine most folks vote for themselves, though.

Nope. Never self-voted in six years of fighting.

I've tried to friend-flood, but my friends can't be arsed to come vote for me.

In the old single vote days I would never vote for myself.

Now, with multiple votes, I will vote for myself if I really think my song is vote-worthy

never thought i had the best song

I always think i have the best song. Always.
Well, except those few weeks when Kid Cruiser was submitting.... not even my egotism can compete with that.