Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Discuss upcoming, current, and previous song fights.
User avatar
vowlvom
Capuchin
Posts: 556
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 3:29 am
Instruments: guitar, keys, "other"
Recording Method: PC, reaper, ableton
Submitting as: Vowl Sounds, Vom Vorton
Pronouns: he/him
Contact:

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by vowlvom » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:24 pm

Congrats TLB!
User avatar
Pigfarmer Jr
Galago
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:13 am
Instruments: Guitar
Recording Method: Br-900CD and Reaper to mix
Submitting as: Pigfarmer Jr, Evil Grin, Pork Producer, Gilmore Lynette Tootle, T.C. Elliott
Location: CoMo
Contact:

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by Pigfarmer Jr » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:08 am

*WOOT* Congratzies.
Evil Grin has an album: https://evilgrin.bandcamp.com/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/1Dcqs6LhwsoYS6EDGPhCCk

My solo Album: http://tcelliott.bandcamp.com/

Ad astra per alia porci - Steinbeck
(To the stars on the wings of a pig.)
User avatar
jb
Lemur
Posts: 3727
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:12 am
Instruments: Guitar, Cello, Keys, Uke, Vox, Perc
Recording Method: Logic X
Submitting as: The John Benjamin Band
Location: WASHINGTON, DC
Contact:

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by jb » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:17 am

Good job all!
blippity blop ya don’t stop heyyyyyyyyy
User avatar
Chumpy
Twilight Sparkle
Posts: 611
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:06 pm
Instruments: Vocals, guitar, bass
Recording Method: Logic
Submitting as: Jerkatorium, Chumpy
Pronouns: he/him
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by Chumpy » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:27 am

The Jerks are joined by Glenn Case and Mo, in our longest podcast ever!

Here's how you can participate in this madness: Feelings, woah-woah-woah feelings: feedback@twojerksonevote.com.

INDEX: Yow!
"How did these fuckin' guys get signed? Bring on the Beach Boys meets Ween." --boltoph
mo
Marmoset
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:46 pm
Instruments: guitar, bass
Recording Method: behringer umc202hd, guitar rig, cubase, garageband, audition, reason
Submitting as: duboce triangle
Location: hell a

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by mo » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:47 am

Sorry about that, y'all
User avatar
jb
Lemur
Posts: 3727
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:12 am
Instruments: Guitar, Cello, Keys, Uke, Vox, Perc
Recording Method: Logic X
Submitting as: The John Benjamin Band
Location: WASHINGTON, DC
Contact:

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by jb » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:51 am

Hahaha nobody likes my damn guitar solo. I worked hard on that! Just because you can’t hear the vibrato doesn’t mean my finger wasn’t wiggling! *womp womp*

Anyway, not sure if you noticed in the preflight thread but I mentioned that my entry would be mildly controversial— the fact that it’s a close homage to The Tennessee Waltz and that Porcupine can be swapped for any theee-syllable word was the mild controversy.

For the dance song here are the Wikipedia elements:

1. The families (basically there are Old World and New World porcupines. Actually only Old World porcupines climb trees.)
2. All your bark is mine - porcupines eat bark
3. 30,000 spines - I forget where I read that but it seemed like a lot
4. The verses are the Lakota myth about how Porcupine was given his spines by the trickster spider god Iktomi.

Thanks for another fun podcast, chums.

Kenna
blippity blop ya don’t stop heyyyyyyyyy
User avatar
jb
Lemur
Posts: 3727
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:12 am
Instruments: Guitar, Cello, Keys, Uke, Vox, Perc
Recording Method: Logic X
Submitting as: The John Benjamin Band
Location: WASHINGTON, DC
Contact:

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by jb » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:56 am

Oh and BY THE WAY Sonic, from the videogame, is a hedgehog. Hedgehogs and Porcupines are not related.

KEEPING YOU HONEST HAD TO BE DONE
blippity blop ya don’t stop heyyyyyyyyy
mo
Marmoset
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:46 pm
Instruments: guitar, bass
Recording Method: behringer umc202hd, guitar rig, cubase, garageband, audition, reason
Submitting as: duboce triangle
Location: hell a

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by mo » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:20 pm

Hedgehogs v Porcupines would be a good terrible video game for Glenn to be #1 at.


Fins
User avatar
vowlvom
Capuchin
Posts: 556
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 3:29 am
Instruments: guitar, keys, "other"
Recording Method: PC, reaper, ableton
Submitting as: Vowl Sounds, Vom Vorton
Pronouns: he/him
Contact:

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by vowlvom » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:46 pm

That was excellent, sprawling and extremely detailed. I am fully down for more detailed post-Nur-Ein analysis (I hope that Niveous+Brookes recap still happens) and the commentary on the fight songs was good too! I feel like I'm missing out every time there's a podcast and I don't have a song up for discussion which is excellent motivation to write more.
User avatar
furrypedro
Loris
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:06 pm
Instruments: Guitar, programming
Recording Method: Cubase, Reason
Submitting as: Balance Lost
Location: Kyoto
Contact:

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by furrypedro » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:41 am

Thoroughly enjoyed listening to that. Thanks fellas. I also really love doing the connect-the-dots thing with hip-hop and old songs!
mo
Marmoset
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:46 pm
Instruments: guitar, bass
Recording Method: behringer umc202hd, guitar rig, cubase, garageband, audition, reason
Submitting as: duboce triangle
Location: hell a

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by mo » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:35 am

I liked the solo, JB, it’s just ever since I got called out by the old cat about playing long sustained notes without vibrato, I started not being able not to notice it. I tend to do no do vibrato when I’m thinking too much about what to do next, so I’m not fully in the moment and details of playing performance might get missed. It doesn’t happen if I’m playing a blues or something where I’ve played that kind of thing enough that I can just go by feel and turn my brain off, but jazz or any playing through changes still requires more thinking for me.

But just being aware that it’s something to remember has made a huge difference for me, if you know what I mean
User avatar
jb
Lemur
Posts: 3727
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:12 am
Instruments: Guitar, Cello, Keys, Uke, Vox, Perc
Recording Method: Logic X
Submitting as: The John Benjamin Band
Location: WASHINGTON, DC
Contact:

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by jb » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:27 am

mo wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:35 am
I liked the solo, JB, it’s just ever since I got called out by the old cat about playing long sustained notes without vibrato, I started not being able not to notice it. I tend to do no do vibrato when I’m thinking too much about what to do next, so I’m not fully in the moment and details of playing performance might get missed. It doesn’t happen if I’m playing a blues or something where I’ve played that kind of thing enough that I can just go by feel and turn my brain off, but jazz or any playing through changes still requires more thinking for me.

But just being aware that it’s something to remember has made a huge difference for me, if you know what I mean
It's an interesting discussion. I very much agree that you should be aware and shouldn't just play something any particular way by default. Default only gets you so far. I received an astute comment by Frankie once that a melody in a song was "Default JB", which was true and thought-provoking. I really had just tossed it off and it sounded like melody I'd make off the top of my head-- intervals and rhythms that come naturally to me, without consideration or craft. Which, I think my default is pretty good and that's what training gets you. But as an artist the default isn't thoughtful and I aspire to be a thoughtful artist.

That solo in "Porcupine Waltz" took me a while to figure out both notes and tone, and I practiced it and crafted the melody line deliberately to get what I wanted. I was pretty pleased with myself, so I was surprised to see how it was experienced by others. One comment was that it was the most amateurish aspect of the recording-- a shocking comment to me, since I felt its restraint and craft to be quite sophisticated. Doesn't mean I was correct though. :geek:

Not that I'm offended at all by any of the comments! People hear what they hear and I'm not one to say they're wrong in how they experience the production, even if I disagree. All it has to do is make me consider different perspectives, because my goal when I make music is to communicate and communication requires an understanding of how your intended recipient will comprehend the message. So the critiques are useful to help me better communicate in a way that others might understand.

Regarding vibrato, I come from a world (cello, vocals) where when you reach a certain level of technical capability it's easy to just apply vibrato by default without consideration. When I taught private cello lessons, it was always a mental challenge to ensure that my students applied vibrato where it would be effective, rather than just by default. Sometimes, vibrato isn't called for. Sometimes you just have to let the note ring, and "movement" isn't helpful. YMMV of course, but I'd disagree with that person who said long sustained notes aren't interesting if they're not moving. And many classical clarinetists would agree... clarinet vibrato belongs in a klesmer bands, not an orchestra. ;)

Even then, there's room for interpretation and its about the piece of work rather than some intellectual principle. Vibrato in a Gregorian chant would ruin it. Vibrato in a concert choir expands the sound within reason. Too broadly performed it muddles the close harmonies, but nuanced vibrato makes it sound like there's twice as many singers.

Good chat!

JB
blippity blop ya don’t stop heyyyyyyyyy
User avatar
thelowestbitter
A New Player
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 11:05 am
Instruments: Synths, Guitar, Garageband on my phone
Submitting as: The Lowest Bitter
Pronouns: he/him
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by thelowestbitter » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:56 pm

Wooo! Thanks for the nice comments and reviews everyone, good week all round. Enjoyed the podcast a lot, feels bizarre to hear The Lowest Bitter and The Spinto Band mentioned in the same breath. They’re actually how I first heard of Song Fight over a decade ago, when I came here and downloaded all the Carol Cleveland Sings tracks at the height of my teenage The Spinto Band fandom. Couldn’t take part back then as I didn’t play a single instrument, but I’ve gotten around to it eventually
mo
Marmoset
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:46 pm
Instruments: guitar, bass
Recording Method: behringer umc202hd, guitar rig, cubase, garageband, audition, reason
Submitting as: duboce triangle
Location: hell a

Re: Don't get pricked on all of the (Porcupine Reviews)

Post by mo » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:36 pm

Sure all that’s true, and there’s also the consideration of what kind of vibrato we’re talking about, as the usual cello (for me, violin) vibrato and electric guitar vibrato are quite different techniques. The subtlety vs bigness of the vibrato, as it were, change of velocity, timing, etc.

While you are totally right that intention and musical motivation matters, ie that you shouldn’t just apply vibrato to apply vibrato, it needs to be a musically valid choice, in this particular solo there’s a LOT of sustained notes, sure, some longer than others, and on the really long notes I do feel like they could benefit from more expressivity. I don’t feel that way about most of the half notes; those are fine. I wasn’t saying PUT VIBRATO EVERYWHERE, that wasn’t the intent of either what I was saying or what I was told. I’m sure you know what I mean, but better to say it than not, I think.

If it helps you determine if you care or not, I notice it most at about 1:10 where there’s several longer notes and the last note of the solo
Post Reply