Sidefight idea

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Jim of Seattle
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Sidefight idea

Post by Jim of Seattle » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:27 pm

I just thought of this idea for a sidefight. Has anything like this been tried?

There would be a title and a deadline just like regular fights. Entrants would all record songs for the title. And at the deadline, everyone votes. Or maybe a panel would judge. I don't know. THEN, each entrant would get feedback and record a second version, maybe a week later. And there would be feedback on the second version. This could go on for maybe 4-5 rounds, with the same song getting re-recorded and improved and worked over, and the only vote that would count would be the final vote on like the fifth version. In the spirit of sportsmanship, artists would be discouraged from contributing to reviews.

It could be fun to hear a song in round one that didn't earn votes but showed maybe some potential if only, say, the guitars were recorded better. Or people thought it was too slow, or too long, or whatever. Then there would be a way better second version, and it got better and better until it ended up winning.

Just an idea I thought of.
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Re: Sidefight idea

Post by Lunkhead » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:14 pm

Could be fun! I'd be game to try it.

One thing I've felt, from being judged in Nur Ein, or eliciting feedback from folks on the boards, or even from just within BSS when doing the producing for a BSS song, is that I do it with an implicit expectation that I will get a coherent consensus which will put me on "the path" to "fixing" or "perfecting" a song. What I usually get instead though is a bunch of contradictory feedback and I can wind up _less_ clear about how to "improve" things. It might be fun to work through several rounds of feedback like that, I guess you'd just have to quickly figure out what of it resonates with you and what of it doesn't, follow your gut, etc. but maybe there could be a strategic element around that.
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Re: Sidefight idea

Post by lichenthroat » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:21 pm

This sounds interesting to me, too. I'd do it.
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Re: Sidefight idea

Post by owl » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:56 pm

Lunkhead wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:14 pm
What I usually get instead though is a bunch of contradictory feedback and I can wind up _less_ clear about how to "improve" things.
^^^ this

Once you're past the low-hanging fruit like "tune your guitar" or "play in time with the drums" I kind of feel like these rounds of feedback can get you closer to what one particular person wants to hear, but maybe not to a general consensus. There are so many individual taste preferences to contend with.

I think this could be fun but maybe the fight format wouldn't necessarily make sense, maybe it would work just as a project or ongoing thread?

(Also has there already been something like a Production Fight where you pass the same basic stems around to people and have them each mix/produce the song separately and add stuff and see what happens?)
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Re: Sidefight idea

Post by Pigfarmer Jr » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:31 am

Re: Owl - Mix/ReMix fight. I like it.

re: OP - I'd be interested in this idea. Several rounds could be time intensive, but honestly, if it's mostly mixing in subsequent rounds, that's more doable than re-recording every round. I guess it depends on how much re-recording/adding a particular song needs.

I also don't mind the participants reviewing/voting. (I'd likely go so far as to say only the participants could vote.) It'll be pretty obvious if someone is trying to torpedo another entry. Or at least, I would be willing to say there would be a lot of feedback telling someone they are full of shit if it's blatantly unhelpful feedback. A lot of reviews contain something along the lines of "some reviewers didn't like X but it works for me." It's up to the artist/mixer to determine what is helpful and not.

I wonder if it would work if we took out the original fight. Instead of a new song, what if each participant took a "recent" songfight entry and used it. And voters would be encouraged to use "most improved" as a major element in their vote.

At any rate, I like the idea however it's implemented. Depending on timing, I'd be in.
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Re: Sidefight idea

Post by jb » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:56 am

I like the idea— I would suggest that round 1 of these side fights should be a draft and everyone should do another iteration and submit it— and then the reviews start.

Often reviews contain stuff that you already know needs improvement. So give a deadline to force a song to get squoze out, then another to fix what you know is broke. And then get feedback to help understand what could be improved that you can’t see because you’re too close or too in love.
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Re: Sidefight idea

Post by Æpplês&vØdkã » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:59 am

Pigfarmer Jr wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:31 am
Re: Owl - Mix/ReMix fight. I like it.

re: OP - I'd be interested in this idea. Several rounds could be time intensive, but honestly, if it's mostly mixing in subsequent rounds, that's more doable than re-recording every round. I guess it depends on how much re-recording/adding a particular song needs.

I also don't mind the participants reviewing/voting. (I'd likely go so far as to say only the participants could vote.) It'll be pretty obvious if someone is trying to torpedo another entry. Or at least, I would be willing to say there would be a lot of feedback telling someone they are full of shit if it's blatantly unhelpful feedback. A lot of reviews contain something along the lines of "some reviewers didn't like X but it works for me." It's up to the artist/mixer to determine what is helpful and not.

I wonder if it would work if we took out the original fight. Instead of a new song, what if each participant took a "recent" songfight entry and used it. And voters would be encouraged to use "most improved" as a major element in their vote.

At any rate, I like the idea however it's implemented. Depending on timing, I'd be in.
The "improve an existing song" thing would be more likely to get me in. As it is, I operate over...pretty regimented time constraints. "Honey, could you watch the toddler a minute while I go bang on the drums in the garage?" "Okay, we got the bags packed? Cool, I'm gonna take a quick break and record some djembe so I can mix this track on the road" Shift work, parenting, chores, etc.

Going back and reworking/re-recording old songs? I can think of a few that I would love to do that with. Then again: why limit it to recent? I could go back to 2006 and pick something from there in the archive. Then again: usually there's so much artistic growth in the span of a decade, that going back that far may mask "how well did you incorporate improvements" with "how much have you developed in your skill as an artist in the past 13 years" which...is usually going to be "a ton" for nearly everyone who posts here.
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