The Song Fight Bulletin Board

Okay so one of the best mixing advice tips I've gotten from Song Fight! (specifically from drew, back in the early days) is that every instrument needs a place to "live" in the audio spectrum. Most EQ plugins will show a live spectrum of the input and/or output signal. What you want to do is find the characteristic frequencies that belong to each instrument, and then notch out that general area from other instruments; for example, if your bass lives at around 50-100Hz, everything that isn't a bass should have that part turned down. Also don't forget about overtones - your bass primarily lives in the low end but a lot of its sound can come from the midrange as well. It's all a balancing act.

If you have two things that live in the same frequency space, you can try using a sidechain compressor to let one take priority over the other. I do this a lot for vocals vs. guitars; since I want vocals to take priority over guitars, I'll set the guitar's compressor to use the vocals as a sidechain. Sometimes sidechain routing can get pretty complicated; if you have a bunch of things you want to all work as that, you can set up a send bus (so for example, your different lead vocal tracks all go to Aux 20, and then you set Aux 20 to not have any output at all but then you can use that as a sidechain for all of the things you want to bring down under the vocals). There's a lot of knobs to turn and it's easy to make the problem worse though.

Another thing that's really helpful is to have a spectrum analyzer on the output and try to have your overall spectrum fit a smooth curve, usually the A-Weighting curve. If some part of your spectrum is peaking, use equalization to bring that down. And have this equalization tweaking happen before whatever multiband compressor you're using.

Also, mastering presets are your friend, but they're a starting point. I like Logic's "Broadcast Ready" preset; what I'll generally do is turn that on, then look at the pre-multipressor ChanEQ and tweak the curve manually there. However, this is only something to do after you're happy with the overall mix. It'll help to punch up the sound and make the levels and final EQ feel good, but it won't magically de-muddify an already-muddy signal chain.

There are lots of references out there which can help guide you to some very rough, basic guidelines about what qualities of the sounds of what kinds of instruments/voices come from which frequency ranges. I've got this one printed out and taped up behind my computer monitor.

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/music ... heatsheet/

I'm lazy so I don't do a ton of complementary notching/bumping. :/ I mostly focus on the low frequencies which to me are a little simpler and easier and less time consuming to improve and get a lot more return on time spent IMO.

I make sure that everything other than the kick drum and bass guitar has a high-pass/low-cut filter on it so that nothing is competing with the bass and kick in the low low and sub frequencies. So, guitars, vocals, keys, etc. all have their filters rolling off starting at various threshold frequencies. I mostly use EQ presets but I like to move the threshold frequency up for the high-pass for vocals compared to where the presets I use set it.

Then I try to make sure my kick and bass guitar are playing nicely together. I put a high-pass on the bass guitar too, set at 60-80Hz. I don't personally like a ton of super super low frequencies, so, I'll even put a high pass on the kick at like 40-60Hz (maybe ~60Hz using the kind of high pass where if you turn up the Q it gives a bump at the threshold frequency).

As far as bass flabbiness/fartiness, beyond the EQ, you should be running your bass through a compressor which can help "tighten" up the sound. I don't have great specific advice there about settings. I usually use presets. I like a tube compressor or "vintage" compressor, adding a bit of warmth/grit or whatever.

Yeah I mean I don't spend all my time notching/bumping everything, I usually just focus on making sure the vocals are audible and the bass isn't a thuddy mess. I tend to use a lot of EQ presets as well although Logic's presets have a tendency to try to make everything dominate everywhere, which isn't so helpful. Also EQ presets assume a lot about the tone of the thing being recorded and the mic used and so on. I generally find the compressor presets to be more useful overall.

Thanks - I will spend some time l experimenting with this info. I am recording a single at the moment which is basically 3-piece rock - so I want the bass to be present.

How much of a role do you think the actual bass plays in this? For years I have played a relatively inexpensive Yamaha (I think this one https://media.sweetwater.com/api/i/b-or ... -large.jpg - or something very similar)

I like it because it is light-weight and comfortable. I often wonder if it is it's "light-weightedness" that may be an issue. Also for years I have been planning on buying myself a P-bass - but have always put it off thinking - I'm not playing it on stage, and no point wasting money on an expensive bass if my mixing is still crap.

Does anyone think a new bass would make a huge difference - given I am simply plugging straight into an audio interface?

IMO any bass can be made to sound good with enough mixing and processing. Logic's bass amp modeling plugin can do a lot to help out (although be careful with its presets, most of them are WAY oversaturated in my experience).

You should post a plain recording of your bass for us to check out. It could be fine, or it could be terrible. Or it could just be that you're not starting with the sound that you ultimately want to have and that will mean a lot more post production effort to get from your starting point to where you're trying to go. Having a bass that starts off sounding more how you want might make it take a whole lot less time and effort to get a good sound. If you haven't already, check out the Squiers and made-in-mexico Fenders, for more affordable but still good options.

I think with bass your actual playing technique can have a lot of effect on the tone too. If you're playing with a pick that cuts down on that some but fretting could still be effecting the tone.

Another thing that might help is to buy an affordable outboard tube preamp, like the PreSonus TubePre:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... tubepre-v2

(Maybe look for a used older/v1 model if you want a more affordable option.)

Oh yeah, then there are the strings! Make sure to get the right kind of strings for the sound you're going for. I don't know if you have any music stores you can go to with actually helpful people who could recommend a type of strings for the sound you want but if you do ask them about it. Or Google it. I'm not personally super knowledgeable about it, but I've used GHS Boomers, and Slinky strings, they're fine.

https://rangeofsounds.com/blog/bass-str ... unk-music/

I know you said "rock" but your rock songs in my opinion lean in a slightly punk direction so maybe that above page's advice would work for you for getting the right strings.

And you probably want to make sure to use probably some kind of "classic" virtual bass amp. Like if you have an option that's emulating an Ampeg SVT, preferably through an 8x10" cabinet, that might help you get more of the classic/punk rock bass sound you may want.

This is for real bass so you can probably skip some of the mic'ing stuff but you could also potentially translate it into how you set up your virtual bass amp and if you simulator lets you set up virtual mics etc.

I, too, have often thought, “gee, that sounds like farts” when hearing myself play bass, and have found this guy on YouTube to be really great at explaining the most basic bass nonsense to a compete imbecile. (Me, I’m the imbecile. After my first Songfight bass attempt I realised I should have googled “what is bass for”, not “how to play bass”).

If you aren't ready to get a new bass, it might be worthwhile to have the bass you have set up by a professional. There could certainly be issues with string heights and pickup alignment that are making your bass sound differently than you would like.

Oh, and if you're using a pick, you probably want a very thick pick.

All good points here. Eq, how you record and treat the bass all matter. And the bass itself does, too. Because I have too many things, I also have several basses. They all sound different from each other. I have flat wound strings on a hollow body, and just recently put on my first set of nylon strings on another. Tone all over the place.

I'll second the tube pre. I record through a dual channel Blue tube. Two tracks. One through an Eden preamp pedal into the Blue, the other through a compressor into the Blue. The Blue adds some tube colorization and thickens the sound.

That bass you have is probably good for all around not really a bass guy stuff. Nothing wrong with it. But maybe try out a P-Bass. They tend to have a bit of teeth to the ones Ive played and if I have to end up with only one, itll be my P. Trade yours in for a cheapy if you find one you like.

And yeah, work the bass and bass drum in your mixes together. I like to hear and feel both together. Notch those frequencies out to compliment each other, then mix upwards. Build a foundation and then start putting stuff on top til you get to the vocals. Tweak, tweak some more, mail it off.

I got some felt picks recently too. They add finger like thump.

fluffy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:46 pm

IMO any bass can be made to sound good with enough mixing and processing.

That it generally what I was thinking too (well - any half decent bass anyway)

lunkhead wrote: You should post a plain recording of your bass for us to check out. It could be fine, or it could be terrible.

OK. Here is about 30 seconds of my bass recorded plain. Followed by the same riff but using the plug-in I usually start with (Garagaband's "Modern Stack")
https://soundcloud.com/caravanray/untitled-27620-140-pm

I think it's ok? The problem starts when I mix with other stuff. The bass just gets buried, and I can't dig it out without making a big bass mess - so I usually leave the bass a bit flabby and impotent

ken wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:27 pm

If you aren't ready to get a new bass, it might be worthwhile to have the bass you have set up by a professional. There could certainly be issues with string heights and pickup alignment that are making your bass sound differently than you would like.

That's is a good idea. I usually get my guitars serviced every year or so. But I never think about the bass. Ive had it for 13 years and never serviced. I can't remember the last time I even changed the strings - it must be 6 or 7 years.

From your sound clip I would try not using the plug in at all. I'd compress it slightly, EQ it to bring out the low mids and lows (depending on the mix) and then cut frequencies in competing tracks so it has a nice spot in the low end mostly to itself. Big and wide is closer to flabby tight and thin is. Or maybe mix the two samples so the plug in version isn't quite so loose. (Good sounding, but in a mix probably not very tight.)

That being said, I suck at mixing bass most of the time so....

I think that plain bass sound is totally fine. The plugin sound also seems fine. You may want to work more on muting the strings that you're not actually playing. You can do this by muting them with either or both hands. I hear a fair amount of open strings vibrating/ringing when they're not being played. That's just going to add noise to your track which could make things more difficult. Playing more cleanly will make things easier.

But yeah, I think you've got a decent sound to start from. I think you need to focus on making sure all your other tracks, beside the bass and the kick drum, have a high-pass EQ on them. In case GarageBand doesn't use that term, it's an EQ setting that causes all the sound at frequencies below the chosen frequency to be cut more and more the farther below the chosen frequency. It's the down slope on the left hand side of this image, which I'm guessing is enabled by that red icon above it:



Then you need to make sure your kick and bass are not clobbering each other. Give the kick the 60-80Hz or even 60-100Hz range, by putting a high-pass filter on your bass. You may want to notch down the kick in 100-120Hz and boost the bass there, etc. Have your kick and bass solo-ed and play with the EQ in those sub/low-low frequencies till you can feel both the punch of the kick and the rumble of the bass.

Oh yeah, one thing I don't think that's been mentioned is the idea of starting all of your mixing by focusing just on the kick then bass first. Solo the kick, get it sounding how you like, solo the bass, get it sounding good, solo both of them, get them sounding good together. Then do everything else.

Lunkhead wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:04 am

Oh yeah, one thing I don't think that's been mentioned is the idea of starting all of your mixing by focusing just on the kick then bass first. Solo the kick, get it sounding how you like, solo the bass, get it sounding good, solo both of them, get them sounding good together. Then do everything else.

That sounds like a good idea. I will try it.

Great suggestions from everybody. A lot for me to work on.