When I think of a "list song," one of the first examples that comes to my mind is TMBG's "Money for Dope." That one surely would qualify - the entire lyric is just a long weird rider list (or a list of things one could sell for dope.) Another TMBG example of this is "Mammal," but only the chorus. (edit: some more examples: Tom Lehrer - "The Elements" or possibly Billy Joel - "We Didn't Start the Fire")
But, the Wikipedia list has other examples that don't seem like obvious list songs to me; e.g. the Beatles' "Come Together" or the Bloodhound Gang's "The Bad Touch." So, if I write a lyric in the vein of these, a long rambling but made of whole sentences, not just a long list of words and phrases, would that qualify?
Re: Nur Ein XVIII, Round Four: "Partly Fiction"
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:52 am
by glennny
Just in case the judges were wondering what's that list song that I always bring up from the greatest East Bay Art Rock band of all time Idiot Flesh, here it it:
Teen devil worshipper Jonathan Cantero's list of equipment for the 12th of October
1. Knife and sheath
2. Vail and lid for blood
3. Plastic bag for left hand
4. Small bag for money
5. Handkerchief to cover mouth
6. Jeans
7. T-shirt
8. A book of shadows
Teen devil worshipper Jonathan Cantero's list of activities for the 12th of October
1. Go to school
2. Leave at 11:45
3. Pull up at Mom's house
4. Enter/greet Mom
5. Go to bathroom
6. Prepare knife and handkerchief
7. Go directly to Mom
8. When back is turned
9. Cover her mouth
10. Stab until dead
11. Cut off her left hand
Teen devil worshipper Jonathan Cantero's list of activities for the 12th of October
When I think of a "list song," one of the first examples that comes to my mind is TMBG's "Money for Dope." That one surely would qualify - the entire lyric is just a long weird rider list (or a list of things one could sell for dope.) Another TMBG example of this is "Mammal," but only the chorus. (edit: some more examples: Tom Lehrer - "The Elements" or possibly Billy Joel - "We Didn't Start the Fire")
But, the Wikipedia list has other examples that don't seem like obvious list songs to me; e.g. the Beatles' "Come Together" or the Bloodhound Gang's "The Bad Touch." So, if I write a lyric in the vein of these, a long rambling but made of whole sentences, not just a long list of words and phrases, would that qualify?
As per the wiki definition I think "a song based wholly or in part on a list" is a pretty good definition, so a song that is entirely a list would qualify but so would Come Together's "list of weird things about old flat-top" or California Girls "list of other types of girls that are pretty good but just can't compare to the ones we got here". I guess you could argue that The Bad Touch is based on a list of slang terms / sexual innuendos but that one does feel a bit tenuous, I might personally rank it a little lower than an equally good song that engages with the challenge a bit more.
(Usual disclaimer about five different judges etc etc)
Re: Nur Ein XVIII, Round Four: "Partly Fiction"
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 8:56 am
by mama_pills
Omg idk how many are aware or have been able to infer but, where most humans are made up of 70% water, I am made up of 70% musical theater. Realizing as I think about it that Sondheim loved list songs.
Re: Nur Ein XVIII, Round Four: "Partly Fiction"
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 2:26 pm
by gizo
You know who else loved a list song? 90’s Irish PopRock group ‘A House’
Re: Nur Ein XVIII, Round Four: "Partly Fiction"
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 3:10 pm
by gizo
Man, A House LOVED themselves some list songs.....
I would argue that 'I want too much' is also a list song.
Sorry if these reviews are a little grumpier and more perfunctory than usual, I've been in so many long meetings already this week and it's sucking my will to live.
Berkeley Social Scene - this is fine but there are a bunch of other songs here that are more than fine and I can't hear anything here to elevate this from the bottom of my ranking. The vocals feel weirdly detached from the music and the stuttery repeated vocals got on my nerves, I liked that it didn't have a guitar solo though.
Cavedwellers - I find these lyrics slightly annoying, particularly "hame", but I think annoying lyrics are kinda par for the course for this genre you've wildly swung into, and I have to admire your commitment to the big swing. The double-time instrumental bits are very fun. Very difficult to rank!
chewmeupspitmeout - some interesting production touches as usual, that extremely quiet lead guitar early on freaks my brain out good and proper. On first listen the mismatched bass and drum rhythms didn't really work for me but on repeat listens it didn't bother me as much. The harmonies on the chorus feel a little jarring in places though and that did continue to bother me, unfortunately.
The Dutch Widows - the way the verse melody follows the guitar so closely kinda stopped me from getting into this one, not necessarily a terrible choice but certainly one I've always found a little offputting. The chorus is pretty good but this still felt like it fell a little short of the high points you've reached so far this Nur Ein, still solidly enjoyable but definitely in my "tricky to rank middle section of songs where I liked stuff about them but not everything".
Ellipsis - excellent fuzz again, and I really like the addition of the synth melody to lift the chorus. The vocal has some good swagger to it that matches the energy of the guitar. The lyrics feel pretty basic but they hit the challenge and the performance is good enough that I only really notice when reading them, so not really an issue.
Glennny - I saw all the time signatures and other technical weirdness listed in the lyrics thread and expected not to like this at all, but in fact I like it a fair amount, and like some of the other tricky songs in the middle of my ranking there are parts of it I like a lot and others I'm not keen on and it's very difficult figuring out which one is the most satisfying full package. Mostly, I like the chorus. I dislike the bit where you mention U2. You may suffer in my extremely tight rankings for invoking Bono.
Grumpy Mike - if you'd described this song to me before I'd heard it then I'd have feared the worst ("I've pivoted to an acoustic sound and it's about cryptocurrency!") but this was easily my favourite of the round even if I can't exactly explain why. The guitar feels a little robotic somehow (over-compressed perhaps?) but I love the general melancholy feel, the strong melodies and the way the strings and other touches swell to support the vocal and guitar. At first I thought it needed some harmonies to really make the chorus pop but after a few listens I appreciated the isolated solo vocal, it fits the feel of the song well.
Max Bombast - like the BSS track, this is fine, but it lacked the interesting idea / hook / whatever to make it memorable for me, it feels a little uninspired - the double-speed switch-up is fairly effective but isn't enough to grab me.
Moss Palace - love those dreamy synths. I think this is my favourite Moss Palace song of this Nur Ein, it sounds great throughout and the chorus melody is an earworm, especially when the call-and-response backing vocals come in.
Nick Soma - I'm not always into a guitar sound that is this heavily effected but it works really well here. There's a generally spacy, bittersweet feeling to this song that resonated with me. It's a little Beatles-y without feeling overly homage-y. I like the lyrics too, some lovely word combinations in a word-painting kinda way.
Eric Novak - submitting while you're immune, hell yeah. Pro move! This is a lot of fun, I was not familiar with the song you're riffing on here but now that I am, I think you'd done a good job borrowing from it without just feeling like a straight cover, you've added your own odd feel to it. Not sure it'd be a smart move borrowing from an existing song if this was in competition but totally fine choice for a shadow. I think this is your best vocal so far too.
Re: Nur Ein XVIII, Round Four: "Partly Fiction"
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:58 am
by glennny
Partly Fiction Reviews
Berkeley Social Scene- Geech on Drums, Vocals, Lyrics and Production. Ken on left guitar, glennny (me) on right guitar. Martin on bass. I really dig Geech’s energy on this vocal. I ‘m a fan of the chorus too. List of pick-up lines and a list of song quotes. This was a fun jam, Good job Geech with all of the heavy lifting!
Cavedwellers- Do you know that Fairport Convention album: Full House? It’s a mutual favorite of Truth and me. We’re going for that kind of a jam. Truth knocks it out of the park with the mandolin, banjo, tin whistle, and guitar playing. His vocals are top notch as usual. I enjoy everything about this song. Hope you all enjoy!
Chew Me Up Spit Me Out- I like the arpeggiated synth bit that the song is built around. Lyrics are good! My favorite part is the Johnny Greenwood guitar that comes in at the end. Cool song!
Dutch Widows- What is that riff? It sounds so familiar. Maybe it’s just a good catchy riff, but I feel like it’s something. Wait! I got it. Cage the Elephant! “Mess Around”, I guess it just reminds me of it. https://youtu.be/ZCkTJSZskhM This is catchy! This is great! I like Brits who sing with British accents. (Thanks for being cool with me including your name in my lyrics, Dutch Widows is a great Dactyl)
Ellipsis – Are you trying to win this thing? Bad Ass riffs! Evermind vocals! Everything is so kick ass, then you throw on that gross wimpy synth in the chorus. It’s almost comical to me. You’re a guitarist, you’re a rocker, are you not anti-synth? The notes are fine, it shoulda been a different guitar, I know you have more. The lyrics don’t do much for me, but they’re fine, they don’t matter so much when you have rock power. This is a contender for this round! I love it!
Grumpy Mike- This is pretty and performed very well! I listen to Conan O ‘Brien Needs a Friend regularly. I’m a Jack White fan. So, when I hear this song start, I’m taken to Idaho, I’m going to vote for Pedro, and another list song is evoked: https://youtu.be/PKfD8d3XJok
Fall is here, hear the yell
Back to school, ring the bell
Brand new shoes, walking blues
Climb the fence, books and pens
I can tell that we are gonna be friends…
Max Bombast- This is amazing. Your vocals are amazing! Everything sounds awesome. I have 2 issues with this song. 1st- Lyrics- I get that you know these are cliché’s. That’s the point, but it still makes me cringe to have to hear them strung together. I feel like Sammy Hagar would deliver these seriously. 2nd issue: That kick. Way too much kick. I despise double kick drums, this is close to it. It’s impressive when one can play it like that, but it never sounds good to me. Nit Pick. This is awesome.
Moss Palace- I wonder who you will meet in the finals? This is superb all around. Great lyrics, stellar vocals, excellent production. I mentioned in the listening party how I hate the timbre of that opening synth, I like the melody, I wish it was a different instrument. This is a contender. Wonderful job!
Nick Soma- I like every guitar line, I like the melody and lyrics. I wish the dynamics were more extreme. You start very somber, I wish it built in intensity like Fake Plastic Trees or something the Pixies might do. It stays nice, I think if it got really heavy it would be more powerful.
Eric Novak- The lyrics are pretty cool despite the borrowed chorus. https://youtu.be/8nvzEqsZIGo I still think this was an immunity move. You’re flexing and flaunting your win. I do appreciate you submitting a song when you didn’t have to. This is when I make my annual complaint and rule change suggestion : “Why does immunity mean you’re immune from winning also? Why not just immune from losing?”
glennny- I had so much fun with this. I got very obsessed with hexameter. I wrote pages and pages of lyrics keeping strictly to the form, searching for the words that fit the story that also adhered to the hexameter pattern. I made big lists and pools of Guitarists and Movies and Bands that were spondees or Dactyls. Then I arranged them to play with alliterations and rhymes. Sometimes I write a riff, and then I count it. Oh, this is in 11/8. So I went with it for the verses. I changed it up for the lists and choruses to 4/4. Then I enjoyed a nice 15/8 for the musical interlude. I hope you all enjoyed it.
Re: Nur Ein XVIII, Round Four: "Partly Fiction"
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 9:05 am
by glennny
Vom wrote:
I dislike the bit where you mention U2. You may suffer in my extremely tight rankings for invoking Bono.
I get it it, it was a risk. "U2" is a very singable and rhymable spondee. What's funny is I anticipated such sentiment about Coldplay, and replaced them from one of my earlier versions of the lyrics. (I'm sorry I still like a lot of bands that became uncool)
P.S. Thanks for doing reviews timely and consistently! It helps a lot!
Re: Nur Ein XVIII, Round Four: "Partly Fiction"
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:50 am
by SquirrelProof
Berkeley Social Scene -I like the song but want a bit more chaos or more of a live feel. Lyrically I feel like the uh huh, uh huh yeah scans to me as dismissive, which I think is not right for the theme, or is it meant to read like that? I feel like the vocal is a tad high in the mix - it flattens the instruments into backing-track territory. I like where the heavier guitar comes in for a lil break (after the list), and it makes me want to hear things tweaked so that there are more of these musical story-bits to latch onto.
Cavedwellers - Love the mood in this as it kicks off - really establishes itself. Then the reel is both unexpected and a totally natural extension of what you've set up. I like the overall lyrical theme, but I feel like these could be punched up to make more immediate sense - maybe in the first chorus, since I'm not sure how "I brought the drama, you the friction" fits in with the later choruses, and seems to be mainly a rhyme choice.
chewmeupspitmeout -Nice 80s pet shop boys vibe. However, with it being low-tempo and sad in mood, I feel like it needs some kind of more-defined hook, maybe something different on the refrain melody? I like where the heavier guitar comes in at the end, and it makes me want something like that earlier in the song.
The Dutch Widows - Nice song construction, nice riff, nice theme. I'm stuck with not many nits to pick so I just wonder what this might sound like with a more lively vocal take? There's a kind of irony to the vox I wouldn't want you to lose (the song may then be preachy) but as it is it brings a little detachment as well?
Ellipsis -The guitar tone is great, something needs to be tweaked in the drums so that they're living in the same space. Agree that the role of the synth in adding some texture difference could be moved to an instrument that fits in more organically with the rest. There may be a better bridge lyric than "I'm so tired" - especially when followed by "I wouldn't go to bed on time", it takes me off the central message, I think.
Glennny - The vox floats nicely over the orchestration here, which helps with the time signature. I really like the arrangement of the chime/jangly guitars coming in and out at different points. After a bit, the list line-ending spondees get a little fatiguing - starts to cut into the re-listenability of the song.
Grumpy Mike - Nice melody to this song, so the simple arrangement really helps to highlight it. I like the lyrics a lot, probably the clearest message out of this round of songs. A like the simplicity, which allows the solidity of the different components shine through.
Max Bombast - This is super-catchy, and the vocals are great. While I'm not sure whether I dislike the double-time section, it doesn't hang together organically for me, and I wonder about roads unfollowed that might shake the song up in a more interesting way.
Moss Palace - How do you do all this in a week? Are you in a constant state of grace where idea and execution flow out effortlessly, or have you found a way to expand time? Another one where I have less to say just because everything is working so well. So, you know, kudos.
Nick Soma - I really like the vocal on this, prettily sung but still with a lot of personality to the take. I like how when the arrangement picks up it still keeps the wistful feel of the intro. The lyrics pop out really well ("Books and pens and odds and ends", "Dar-jeeeeee-ling tea"). I like the melody.
Eric Novak -Re: my chorus - while acknowledging the fact that I seem to have cribbed this from Kids In the Hall - it was in fact totally unintentional. I have seen this sketch, but my best estimate is that I saw it 20 years ago. When I came up with it (originally it was "these are the drunks I know"-a different direction for the song) it sounded familiar but I thought it was something traditional, and not a classic, very funny sketch. Brains are mysterious! I'm glad of immunity this round, but overall this was a sincere entry, with maybe a bit less angst as I finished it up. The one true immunity move was allowing myself not to worry about putting "partly fiction" in the lyrics.
Berkeley Social Scene -I like the song but want a bit more chaos or more of a live feel. Lyrically I feel like the uh huh, uh huh yeah scans to me as dismissive, which I think is not right for the theme, or is it meant to read like that?
Ummm... we recorded this song live - drums, bass and two guitars. Vocals and an additional guitar are overdubbed. But I concede we're not The Stooges. This is the story of a guy trying to win over a woman out of his league, so her uhuhs and yeahs are her yessing him - basically dismissive, but she gives him a shot.
And after reading Vom's review, I wish we had a guitar solo in there.
Berkeley Social Scene -I like the song but want a bit more chaos or more of a live feel. Lyrically I feel like the uh huh, uh huh yeah scans to me as dismissive, which I think is not right for the theme, or is it meant to read like that?
Ummm... we recorded this song live - drums, bass and two guitars. Vocals and an additional guitar are overdubbed. But I concede we're not The Stooges. This is the story of a guy trying to win over a woman out of his league, so her uhuhs and yeahs are her yessing him - basically dismissive, but she gives him a shot.
Got it - I think what I must be reacting to is the way the vocals lie over the music track, just want it to integrate more into the overall sound
