Hello

john m · Post by **john m** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:57 pm

An instrumental isn't a song because it doesn't have words. A musical piece without words is a tune. This is Songfight. No drawn out insight needed.

I sure love debating this every couple months.

Imnenigma · Post by **Imnenigma** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:04 pm

I really like that old Mozart tune "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik"

Anyways, you're right. This is Songfight

pegor · Post by **pegor** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:20 pm

john m wrote:An instrumental isn't a song because it doesn't have words. A musical piece without words is a tune. This is Songfight. No drawn out insight needed.

I sure love debating this every couple months.

Yea I thought I was being clear by putting the word "song" in bold. Guess not. Let me just convey some wisdom that a respected fighter dispensed to father bingo and me back in April

The Sober Irishman wrote: Shut up and write a song with words, bumfaces.

Welcome to Songfight!

john m · Post by **john m** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:36 pm

Imnenigma wrote:I really like that old Mozart tune "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik"

If you're saying that sarcastically, you're missing the point. Properly labeling something a tune instead of a song is not (intended to be) demeaning. It's just a way to differentiate between the two.

There is no rule against submitting tunes, but trust me, you will be fighting an uphill battle doing so. Do as you please, just know that should you submit instrumentals (just as if you submitted anything that eludes the point of the site, like spoken word, or if you were like some of the idiots who post meaningless kids-farting-into-a-microphone drivel), you'll mostly receive reviews that don't judge you on musical merit, but rather question why you submitted what you did.

Anyway, back when Songfight hadn't jumped all sorts of sharks, I (or someone else) would have berated you (or any newcomer) for introducing him- or herself before entering a song. Times have changed. Welcome aboard, but get in the damn ring.

Imnenigma · Post by **Imnenigma** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:41 pm

Thanks John M. See, that's what I love about you guys. So many open minds. Although the jumping the shark comment makes you sound like an old fart who used to walk miles in the snow each morning before submitting their song. An open minded old fart mind you.

And is it a requirement that you submit a song before posting in the forum? Is that bad form? Just curious.

Hoblit · Post by **Hoblit** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:54 pm

Imnenigma wrote:I guess you guys aren't big on classical music. They have titles without words. Or maybe that bores you too.

ha ha ha ha... yeah...you know ...such great titles like Behtoven's first and such.

don't correct my spelling if it's wrong.

I'm bein' silly.

obscurity - Too Goth To Rock <-- good example of illustrating the title with an instrumental.

(I never write or start a song before the titles, for me it is impossible)

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:28 pm

Imnenigma wrote: An open minded old fart mind you.

Yeah, John's a old fart!

john m · Post by **john m** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:56 pm

haha really. Why, back in my day, we used to uh, watch Saturday morning cartoons and play TV tag.

Imnenigma wrote:And is it a requirement that you submit a song before posting in the forum? Is that bad form? Just curious.

It used to be bad form, but I guess we've softened enough as a community, if there's an Introductions subsection. I was just remarking on the changes to Songfight over the years.

You know. Because I'm old.

erik · Post by **erik** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:26 pm

Regardless of whether the piece you submit has lyrics or not, some people will like it and some won't, and provided that you have followed protocol with regards to how to submit your mp3, it will be added to the songfight catalog along with all the other songs which either have or don't have words, and which some people either liked or disliked.

Same as it ever was.

stueym · Post by **stueym** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:29 pm

erikb wrote:Regardless of whether the piece you submit has lyrics or not, some people will like it and some won't, and provided that you have followed protocol with regards to how to submit your mp3, it will be added to the songfight catalog along with all the other songs which either have or don't have words, and which some people either liked or disliked.

Same as it ever was.

[slow nod of head]
True!!
[/slow nod of head]

(clinks a Budweiser Erik's way)

Imnenigma · Post by **Imnenigma** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:34 pm

Thanks! I'm not going to send something in unless I really feel it meets the criteria of relevance to the title, even if that relevance may be subjective to a degree. If it gets panned for being irrelevant, I can live with that if it meets my standard of relevance.

I'll review this big fight as my pennance for clogging the forum with this matter.

Mogosagatai · Post by **Mogosagatai** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:31 pm

Random sidenote: Is there even such thing as an objective relevance to a title?

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:35 pm

I find it hilarious that one perfectly innocent Frontalot reference started up THIS whole shitstorm again.

erik · Post by **erik** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:41 pm

Yes. Objectively speaking, the song "Brown Sugar" by the Rolling Stones has no relevance to the title "Instanbul (Not Constantinople)".

It's not a question of "one could make the case" or "shades of gray" or anything else that a junior in AP English would say during a mock trial worth 25% of her final grade. The only way to argue that the Stones song has anything to do with the title "Instanbul (Not Constantinople) is to make up something that is both absurd, and wholly untrue.

erik · Post by **erik** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:43 pm

Bah, it's not a Frontalot reference, it's something that people actually used to say on the old dumbrella boards.

[/old man grumpus]

Mogosagatai · Post by **Mogosagatai** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:05 am

Well, absurdity's a pretty subjective thing (unless we're talking about formal logic). Besides, here are a few non-absurd examples:

The girl who Mick's singing to is named Istanbul, not Constantinople.

The girl lives in Istanbul (not Constantinople), or that's where she and Mick go to get it on.

"Brown Sugar" is actually a metaphor for Instabul (as a reference to its rich sands), and Mick loves to go there and "taste" it, which could also mean any number of things.

Just because he doesn't say any of those things explicity, or even implicity, in the lyrics, doesn't mean that the meaning couldn't be there. And if the song were retitled "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)", that would be pretty implicit that there's some extra meaning behind the song. In fact, a good title should do just that--add lots of meaning to a song, rather than just summarize it.

Mogosagatai · Post by **Mogosagatai** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:07 am

pegor wrote:Instrumentals are about patterns and algorithms. They are kin to geometry and math and architecture. when you add lyrics to a piece you are adding a whole new dimension.

Instrumentals can tell stories too! "Frankenstein" by the Edgar Winter Group is a prime example.

erik · Post by **erik** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:16 am

Mogosagatai wrote:Just because he doesn't say any of those things explicity, or even implicity, in the lyrics, doesn't mean that the meaning couldn't be there.

Just because meaning could be there doesn't mean that you've proven that meaning is actually there. The song "Brown Sugar" by the Rolling Stones has nothing to do with the title "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)". I don't mean that it hypothetically could (if you ignore all of the lyrics), I mean that in actuality, it doesn't.

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:33 am

erikb wrote:Bah, it's not a Frontalot reference, it's something that people actually used to say on the old dumbrella boards.

In rhyme?

erik · Post by **erik** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:47 am

Okay, I'm lost.

the Jazz · Post by **the Jazz** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:55 am

Maybe you need a refresher.

erik · Post by **erik** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:00 am

Ahhhh, I see. I'm not so good at remembering lyrics, so the second half slipped right by me.