Riding the Collab Rainbow

wages · Post by **wages** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:09 pm

http://www.philwages.com/music/GrayRainbow_demo1.mp3

I'm looking for drums primarily. Will also take organ, tambourine (sounds to me kind of like a tambourine song), bass, and maybe ???? I suppose I'm also looking for a producer (someone to mix it and offer producer-y advice).

I've been noodling this guitar part for a few days and also trying to build a decent melody. Hopefully I'm on the right track with this.

Let me know if you wanna collab or offer advice. Best!

wages · Post by **wages** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:29 am

Here's an updated version. I can still collab on this one if I can get "your" part by Wed/Thurs. The drum loops here will be my drums unless I can get drums from anyone. hint hint! I'll also take any pointers on the melody and general production.

http://www.philwages.com/music/GrayRainbow_demo2.mp3

PM if you got anything.

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:05 pm

this song is pretty terrible.

wages · Post by **wages** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:00 pm

blue wrote:this song is pretty terrible.

Thanks.

I was about to post:
------------this--------------
Okay, at this point, I'm guessing either everyone is really busy this week, off on spring break, or this song sucks serious ass and I can't tell how or why.

In any event, perhaps demo3 will be improved considering I've adjusting much of the melody and tried to remove some vocal sliding and some plain wrong notes:
http://www.philwages.com/music/GrayRainbow_demo3.mp3
------------end--------------

So, any recommendations on anything? Even if it's "this part is the worst bit", or "the melody is complete crap and can not be improved", it would be helpful (not so much the latter

).

blue · Post by **blue** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:17 pm

it's the boxy progression of the tired hippie chords. there's no dynamic to anything. it's one of those worst-of bar-band kind of tunes that the fat chicks fumble around to at 1:48am.

trash it.

WesDavis · Post by **WesDavis** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:11 pm

Yeah man, I hate to say it, but I totally agree with Blue. It's pretty bad.

wages · Post by **wages** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:14 am

WesDavis wrote:Yeah man, I hate to say it, but I totally agree with Blue. It's pretty bad.

I feel like the wicker man here!

Okay, so now I have ANOTHER new demo (guitar = identical; vocals & lyrics = lots of change). This one is about 90% new melody and new lyrics. Let me know if you guys think this is an improvement (the more "descriptive" the better):
http://www.philwages.com/music/GrayRainbowv2_demo1.mp3

I'm pretty determined to keep the guitar pretty much "as is" because I think it sounds good. Obviously my theory is that the rest of the song just wasn't/isn't jiving with the guitar part. Any thoughts? Good? Bad? Ugly?

king_arthur · Post by **king_arthur** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:48 am

Hey - been too busy here to even think about doing any collabs lately, but for whta it's worth... I think the point everybody's trying to make is that it isn't a particularly special or interesting guitar part - it's basically one of those four chords over and over with a little variation on the chorus things, and if I was doing a GU version, I'd be going, "okay, how do we make this a little more interesting musically?" As far as lack of dynamics, yeah, that's kinda where most of the stuff I've worked on has started out, and as arranger, I've figured out how to put some dynamic variety in.

While I _will_ give you credit for being much improved as far as the guitar playing _rhythm_ goes (especially on the version with the drum machine), it still kinda comes down to this not being a particularly exciting or interesting set of changes. The first couple songs we did had some pretty wild chord stuff going on... a pain to figure out and play, but interesting to listen to. This one, not so much so.

The latest lyric, about the grey hair, is more interesting than the previous one, but I don't think it really fits with the music... that guy wouldn't be singing to this music, y'know?

I think you're just too attached to the guitar part "as is" here, and you're kinda refusing to fix the thing that's the problem. The changes need to be more interesting, to go somewhere besides the same four chords over and over with minor variation. I know, from having worked with you before, that dynamics could be imposed upon the song, and that you'd do a better final vocal track once the instrumental was worked out. Not sure what to say about the lyrics - I kinda like the grey hair lyric, but maybe not with this music.

Charles

WesDavis · Post by **WesDavis** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:00 am

Wages wrote:
WesDavis wrote:Yeah man, I hate to say it, but I totally agree with Blue. It's pretty bad.
I feel like the wicker man here!

Okay, so now I have ANOTHER new demo (guitar = identical; vocals & lyrics = lots of change). This one is about 90% new melody and new lyrics. Let me know if you guys think this is an improvement (the more "descriptive" the better):
http://www.philwages.com/music/GrayRainbowv2_demo1.mp3

I'm pretty determined to keep the guitar pretty much "as is" because I think it sounds good. Obviously my theory is that the rest of the song just wasn't/isn't jiving with the guitar part. Any thoughts? Good? Bad? Ugly?

It's okay, man, I've made my fair share of bad songs. I'll give this new version a listen, but my main issue is with the guitar part too, and since you haven't changed it, then that's going to continue to be a problem. I don't know if it was because I was tired, or what, when I listened the first time, but it SORT of sounded like you were wandering haphazardly between keys. I could be wrong, though, and I'll check it out when I've had some more sleep later. I didn't sleep last night, though, so I'd be no good to you right now.

Billy's Little Trip · Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:05 am

Actually, I'm the odd man out here. I don't think it's a bad base for a song, it just needs some arrangement and a hook. Find a nice complimenting change, maybe even just a root note change or a second guitar over lay with an octave change. I'd help out, but I can't even get time to finish mine this week.

wages · Post by **wages** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:22 am

Wes, King, Billy: Thanks a lot for taking the time! I made that guitar "ditty" and kind of built the whole thing on that because I was really diggin' it. However, I see what you mean. I'll see what I can do and I'll surely post another demo 'soon as I try something new.

Thanks for taking the time to help. I've already got a little different guitarness in mind, but I need to record it this evening.

wages · Post by **wages** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:25 pm

So I've tried to add a little "flavor" to the guitar (most noticeably I added in a Bm in the "CHORUS", changed the feel of "VERSE part 1" a little, and added some 7th chords here and there (mostly in "VERSE part 2"). So here is what I'm probably gunna have to consider as the "final structure" of the song unless something significant happens:
http://www.philwages.com/music/GrayRainbowv3_demo.mp3

Of course, I still have a lot of re-recording to do and maybe some collabing.

...still listening to suggestions.

blue · Post by **blue** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:46 pm

if the goal here is to be heard as a drunken phish roadie playing a detuned guitar, you might be getting somewhere.

stop noodling in the verses. and tune that fucking thing. and turn the distortion down or off.

wages · Post by **wages** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:18 am

blue wrote:if the goal here is to be heard as a drunken phish roadie playing a detuned guitar, you might be getting somewhere.

stop noodling in the verses. and tune that fucking thing. and turn the distortion down or off.

I don't think it would be so bad to sound like a drunken phish roadie, but I wanna drop that detuned guitar bit.

Sorry, the noodling would probably stay no matter what, but I understand the point on the distortion. The next entry (or few) will be without the Smokey Amp (the cause of the distortion and possibly extreme detuned sound).

Back to the reason for this post.... I'm not crazy about the turned in version of this tune. Its very muddled and, as pointed out, the guitar is just OFF. I didn't realize it was that bad until I listened a few days after "the final" recording. But I have learned a lot in this particular fight and will be implementing several changes for the next fight. Namely, adjusting the levels on my mixer, for my sound card, and within my recording software so that I'm not recording everything in the yellow and red, but in the green; NOT using the Smokey Amp (so guitar direct to mixer); and working on songwriting dynamics. Plus, of course, trying to improve vocal delivery.

Blue - I saw the thread between MC Erik and you. Dude, you are seriously harsh. I don't watch the show, but you are like the Simon of SF. When I get decent reviews from you, I will know I did good.