Oust the Oust?

[Spud]

In true democratic fashion, let's put it to a vote.

[sausage boy]

i want to vote equally for the last two... but thats not really democratic.

[blue]

i want to vote equally for the last two... but thats not really democratic.

democracy is about making the hard choices.

[Märk]

I didn't see a 'cavity search' option in there....

[Oust The Mods]

As of yet we have 15 mudsuckers who are not in favor of one member. If anyone out there is sympathetic they may not come forward simply because they will be suspected of being a "bad member". You adms have our numbers, so to speak.

15 mudsuckers can only perform this operation 15 times. After you have eliminated 15 people with your negative system that you call "democracy" you will have reached your limit.

Democracy is inclusive, not exclusive.

Spud and JB have conspired to rip off the community. They have stolen this private property from the rightful owners, the members.

The members have the sole right to own this community collectively. Therefore they have complete rights and responsibilities.

[Leaf]

Well I voted take him seriously... because it was the only one I see that remotely fits into my perspective.

If the option existed, it would have been "humour him". His rhetoric is very repetitive and frankly, he shoots himself in the foot every single time. It's all rather harmless.

Deleting his posts really underestimates the ability of the people who frequent this board to cypher through his opinion. It's a shtick, a routine he plays. Nothing is there for reason, and this becomes obvious very quickly. Deleting his posts is like telling people "I know what is best for you, and you can't figure it out so I'll hide the bad stuff". Now, this is my opinion, I want to make it clear that if you went and did that (hell, I've had posts deleted and thought it was bullshit...) but still, I'll get over it! I'm not saying his posts are integral to the songfight experience. I'm not saying either, that my personal definition of what "Songfight" is or isn't should be regarded as the only perspective.

Even though Songfight ISN'T a democracy, and nor should it be... but in democratic, TRUE democratic fashion, he can present his ideas and thoughts, and each individual can judge their response for themselves.

Oh, and the reason why I believe FIRMLY that songfight is not nor should be a democracy is quite simple. The idea that OTM is perpetuating is actually one of theft. He wants to steal THEIR property, that THEY pay for, under the lie, the TOTAL LIE that he is some how entitled to it simply by saying so. It would be like walking into his house, and taking his guitar. "Well, OTM, this is the COMMUNITY'S guitar, because you played a concert on it and I was there, so since I was there, I am a part of the audience that listened..." blah blah blah.

When you act threatened by his typing... it gives him the sense that he has the power he claims to have. He DOESN'T. He is kinda humorous though.

[Oust The Mods]

Leaf, i can't assimilate your logic. narbotic left this community to itself. Spud and JB picked it up. There was no official transfer of ownership. Who is going to inherit it? Who is going to own it when they are dead and there is a new generation here?

I have never heard of members not directing their own communities. it is just unheard of. I have never seen a community such as 4H under a private owner.

And your own opinion can not be taken seriously because it is affected by the fact that you have no secure position here unless you reinforce their claims to ownership.

Those who agree with their claim are welcome here. Those who challenge that claim are labeled "troll" and ostracised. So I get the impression that the conscience of the community is held hostage.

You only have votes now. But 1000's have come through that door and many shove out because of the few.

You do it by isolating each one and ganging up. It always looks like the "true democratic fashion" but it's just your own warped, idiotic bull.

So as of this post 63% are in favor of "Ignore". But that is not 63% of the membership. You have no way of interpreting this poll. Since there are 5 options, you can only arrive at a plurality, not a majority.

You always misinterpret the poll. 12 people voted to ignore me. There are over 738 members. What % is that?

[jimtyrrell]

Narbotic's site was the .com, wasn't it? As we've been discussing recently, it's easy for anyone with ambitions to start a domain and open the digital doors.

Even if the operators of this site had no official connection to the community, the institution of an alternate meeting ground for the SF community is democracy in action. Nobody is limited by the restrictions set forth on this site, because sites are limitless. And it's a fatally narrow view to think of the community as trapped within the confines of songfight.org. If you build those walls so close, you're bound to bump against them uncomfortably.

The members of the community here (which I defy you to correctly define) have free reign to follow their impulses wherever they may lead, as can be seen by the number of sidefights and other projects that happen among SF participants. If the results of these seem unsatisfactory to you, squelched opportunity cannot really be said to be the cause. You might not be seeing the forest for the trees, is all. Just a thought.

[Oust The Mods]

Well, the "Sidefights" are actually the right track to be on. I don't like them being called "Sidefights" because I think that the "Sidefights" should be the main program here. They have been initiated by the members and can be formalized into a structured program.

I just want to see the members of web communities take the reins into their own hands. I don't buy the fear propaganda that all hell will break loose if there is not an owner. Communities do not need owners.

[jimtyrrell]

Right. But this site is not the community. This site is one of many potential resources for the community. The community isn't being told what it can't do here. At worst, it's being told part of what it CAN do.

[Leaf]

first off, as ridiculous as my posts may look... I know what the fuck I'm talking about, unlike you. Therefore, it is no surprise to me that you "don't assimilate" my logic. the mere fact that you choose to use words like "assimilate" and "logic" does reinforce my opinion that you are simply hilarious. The only reason you can't "assimilate" my "logic" is because you are not logical. In any way. At all. you should read a common definition of the word "logic" .Here it is.

Now:

You spend a lot of your time typing your assumptions.
Empty assumptions.
want to address a few here in my sporadic manner.

This a message board on rented server space. That's it. If Spud and JB want it to be JUST THEM, they can do that, not only legally, but morally AND ethically.
There is no obligation to this "community", unless they choose to do so. Others who have hung out here didn't like what they saw, so they made their own playground, i.e. Tuneflow.

The word "songfight" is just a word. It is not a community, is is not the "HP or Lyons" club, it is, in fact, THE ADDRESS OF THE SITE. One does not define an intellectual community by it's physical address, but rather by the intellectual ideals that draws them together, and likewise, inspires them to exclude those who don't fit into their vision...

See, here is the total flaw in your argument. You have been democratically excluded from an intellectual community because you acted like such an asshole that people simply wanted to give you back the energy you tried to put on them, first. Just that simple.

Take Belarus for example...they have far less people in their population than the USA. Is it ethical or moral for the USA to run in there and start telling them what to do, or to take charge based on the fact that there are more Americans than Belarusans? Of course not. They don't have any oil... now there's a legitimate reason to try and take over. So one has to wonder... what is the "oil" of songfight that you so desperately crave?

I'll point out that whenever ANYONE takes you seriously, and tries to embrace your ideas, you simply change them.


In conclusion:
I type on here, they usually tolerate it. I wouldn't be surprised if I've had more posts deleted than you, and I"m pretty sure they actually LIKE me.
Suck it up OTM.

Parse that logic.

[Caravan Ray]

In true democratic fashion, let's put it to a vote.

But thankfully, this site isn't democratic. I trust The Dear Leaders to look after my needs. I won't be voting.

[blue]

narbotic did OK the site transfer.

[Märk]

I still want a 'cavity search' option.

[Oust The Mods]

narbotic did OK the site transfer.

To whom?

To anyone that wanted it.

The best thing that ever happened was Narbotic leaving flat.

That's what JB and Pudgy should do.

Dump it in your laps and make you have to do it for yourselves.

Since the transfer from Narbotic to JB and Spud resulted in 2 people taking the helms and coordinating themselves rather than a sole adm., I think that any transfer at this point would result in a democratically formed panel of 2-5 members.

That would be a step in the right direction.

That's what democracy does. It dumps the responsibility where it belongs. I just wonder why anyone would want to be burdened with the responsibilities of managing this place forever.

[Spud]

I am going to tell you a story, Oust. Please read the whole thing before commenting, and I do encourage you to comment. What did I do wrong?

Several years ago I started another competition. It was a Lego RCX competition for people to build robots to compete in a number of challenges that I concocted.

The reason that I started this event was that there were no such competitions that were open to adults. All of the existing Lego-sponsored events were for kids.

I did not exclude kids from my events. I merely included adults.

I am gonna play it a little fast with the numbers here, check me out if you want, here is the address of my site so that you can get more accuracy: http://www.workshop3d.com/rcx .

I held the first competition at the Pacific Science Center in Seattle. I built a very nice arena for people to compete on. I brought music and sound equipment. I found people to be registrars, judges, etc.

Five competitors showed up. Four adults and one kid.

I declared success and did it again in 6 months. 12 competitors showed up, but the audience grew even larger.

For the next three years, I did this every six months. Eventually, about 30-40 robots were entered in each event, and hundreds of people showed up to watch. A group formed on it's own, the Seattle Mindstorms and Robotics Techies (SMART), for the purpose of sharing knowledge and helping people compete in my competitions.

After a bit, I went to SMART and asked them if they wanted to help run the events, with the idea of eventually having them take over from me, since I wanted the community that I had built to be self-governing and self-sustaining.

Three of the leaders of SMART agreed to help me out with the next event, and we co-sponsored it.

Unfortunately, they had very little idea of what it took to run an event, and none of them actually did very much. They were well-intended, but even with my guidance, they were in over their heads. I still did most of the work, even though I gave them the credit. Remember, in the past, I had done ALL of the organizational work. By the way, these were not kids. They were grown men who make a lot more money than I do.

After the event, they came to me and said, as a group, "this event is too much work, let's change it to only once a year.". I said that since I was turning it over to them, they could do it as often as they liked.

This was about three years ago, and there has not been an event since.

[Leaf]

And your own opinion can not be taken seriously because it is affected by the fact that IS CONTRARY TO MY OWN.

You know what kills me about you OTM? How easy you are.

Yet, I am amused at how SERIOUSLY Spud takes you. The guy cares so much about equality... man. It's just fucking hilarious. About the last person to attack... that's why it's so funny. Seriously, as far as a comedic art-form process, you are slaying me here. Well done.

I have my own theories on Spud, having met him, and jammed with him. As far as I am concerned, he is a supremely talented individual. My reasoning is not something I wish to publicly share, and as I have no trust for you in this current form, I will never explain why to you, OTM.

I will say that when we played together, I knew HE KNEW.
To play the role of the arrogant superior for a moment, as clearly it's a perspective you can relate to; let me point out that ACTUAL musicians know what I mean, regardless of skill or knowledge level. He knew. I think he knew I knew too.

I let you in on a little secret... I believe every word I typed in this post. Even the implied ones.

Now, as far as trolling goes... the first few times you came around, I took it WAY too seriously. I can do that... big deal. I'm not perfect. It amuses me how we all hold each other to the concept of being perfect while failing so miserably at it simultaneously.
Even still, as far as trolling goes, you sir, know that you know. Guess what? I KNOW TOO.

This is why your are failing so miserably now. I think it's fucking fantastic and BRILLIANT that Blue invited you here. You weren't planning on it. It' s like inviting a Jehovah witness to come over on Friday at 4 so we can talk about Watchtower. BRILLIANT.


SPUD. Seriously, I gotta say this. Forgive me if I'm off base, but DON'T CARE SO MUCH. Coming from me, that's ... amusing. You rock. You set up a nice house here, you and JB. I love it. I love hanging out. Your acceptance of others, openess, tolerance, ability to jump in and take care of things when needed, is fantastic. Both of you. Do you know how I know it's a fair system? CAUSE I GET the stick sometimes... and I'm still here.

[sausage boy]

Spud, that story makes me sad.

[blue]

I let you in on a little secret... I believe every word I typed in this post. Even the implied ones.

jesus dude, just suck him off and get over it already.

[Spud]

Don't be too sad. I am pretty sure that it is the desire of the community that I created not to do the work of putting on public events, so I presume that it makes them happy to not have to do them. I had to let go in order that they could be so happy.

[frankie big face]

I let you in on a little secret... I believe every word I typed in this post. Even the implied ones.

jesus dude, just suck him off and get over it already.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. That's good stuff.

[frankie big face]

Don't be too sad. I am pretty sure that it is the desire of the community that I created not to do the work of putting on public events, so I presume that it makes them happy to not have to do them. I had to let go in order that they could be so happy.

Maybe they just like making robots but not organizing events. I would think you're probably a rare individual if you like making robots out of Legos and interacting with other people, let alone creating situations where you will have to interact with other people.