By way of introduction.....

[Phillip Wilcher]

Hi Roymond,

I just checked out some of the photo collections on your profile page. Fantastic! Love the collection of old snaps of your mother's family!
Wow - I've got so much to listen to and see in these forums.....

[roymond]

Hey, leave my mom and her family out of it!

Next thing I know you'll be listening to my autobiographical opera "me and mom and her family". I'll have to remove that link.

[Phillip Wilcher]

My autobiographical opera is called "The Missing Link" - cheers Roymond!

[Phillip Wilcher]

This is awesome, someone who really wants to discuss music not only on a technical level, but a philosophical one. On the subject of GWAR, I do think the spectacle IS the music, for better or worse. They even say that they pretty much put out albums as an excuse to do a new, bigger and badder tour.

As far as me being my music, and maybe this is a sign of my young age, I'm inseparable from my music. Even at my most abstract, I am autobiographical at all times. My happy songs were written when I was happy, my sad when I was sad, although they're blending more now into that wonderful all-encapsulating reflection of life, which is never purely one sensation. The evil and the beauty (here's hoping) in my music is always both from inside me and is a reflection of the world around me, as to me the two blur together. Not to be terribly existential about it, but I rarely see myself as an entity living independently of the world around me, but rather entangled in all of it.

I've been criticized for not being able to decide if I am a musician or an artist, and at first I didn't get it, but as music has become more an outlet for me than an expression I have realized what it means to be both. A musician plays music, and an artist lives it. For better or worse.

To quote one of my heroes, D. Boon from the Minutemen in the song "History Lesson Part II": "Our band could be your life."

Hey Luke,

I understand what you mean when you say you are inseparable from your music. Have you ever been inseparable from someone elses music?
I remember when I first heard Chopin's Bb minor piano sonata in my teens, it spoke volumes to my condition, so much that I actually slept with the score under my pillow. There have been many such instances, across all genres, where the impact of another's work leaves such an imprint on me it almost feels as if it has changed my life. When you write that the happy songs you wrote when you were happy and the sad songs you wrote when you were sad are now blending into that "wonderful all-encapsulating reflection of life" this is how I now feel about the Chopin sonata and those works which meant so very much to me when I was young. That's a very wise thing you have said - and even wiser is your realization that it's never purely one sensation - especially in music since music is perhaps the most living of all arts - it needs breath to survive. This brings me back to the belief that things can be consciously willed. I wonder if you could divorce yourself from being happy to write a sad (beautiful) song or from being sad to write a happy song? Are your sad songs sad or are they simply an expression of beauty - some deeper self which resides in that region of the soul where things are possibly a little more out of tune - that bitter/sweet loveliness - if you know what I mean. I agree with you about things being a part of you as well as being a reflection of the world around you. To create is to bring to light an obscurity and give it the external appearance of form. The "difficulty" in music (perhaps more for "oustiders" than musicians, if I can say that...) is that music needs a performance to exist, it needs to be brought into being - even if only mentally through reading a score. I think when I was younger I felt more entangled in the life that was pulsating around me - now with age, I'm perhaps a little more detached, or so attached there's no struggle to feel a part of it. I'm not sure. I do know that when I am writing a piece of music, everything around me is heightened. I don't necessarily know how I do what I do - except when things aren't quite working and I have to rely on "knowledge" and get out the building blocks and tools of my trade. Mostly, after a point, music tends to write itself. I can't actually see or hear a piece in it's entirety - not even the end of it once it is started. At most, I have a feeling or perhaps even a texture I want to project and way leads on to way. Nowadays, I wonder if I met the Phillip Wilcher who wrote certain pieces of music as a child would I recognize him? After writing a lot of music, in my late teens I stopped. To start again, as a "grown up" I learnt to compose again through re-writing those childhood pieces.

"A musician plays music, and an artist lives it. " Really?? Not all composers are the best interpreters of their own music. The musician playing music can certainly be an artist and an artist of the highest order. I think I said something in another post that when a performer plays the work of a composer (or when a band or singer does a "cover") they bring to that work something even the composer/creator can't, and that is the stamp of their own patina - for better or worse. I often prefer hearing a bad performance of a piece. Why? Because I learn more about the piece itself - how it is made etc etc....than I do when the performance is near perfect. Beauty limps. I think we aren't our works - we can't be. I think the struggle most people feel (I think this because I don't know it for sure!) is that they can't be their work. How to explain! I let go of every piece once I have written it - certainly after a time. Everything must move forward for me. I very much doubt I could write the piece of music I wrote last week next week. I don't know from where ideas come.....

I like your heroe's sentiment - "our band could be your life" - but do you hear what your band hears?? All up, after writing all this, I don't know how I do what I do or how anyone creates. And having said all this - for better or worse - I could change my thoughts tomorrow - because perhaps none of this figures during the actual writing of something. Anyway - I hope I haven't frazzled you with this - or anyone who reads it. Keep achieving and moving forward. "The meaning of life is to seek life's meaning". Best wishes....

[Rabid Garfunkel]

"Beauty limps"... I like that. Musically, the making of, is heart on the sleeve time. For me, anyway. Sometimes it's my own heart, and sometimes it's a fictional heart (though no less real to me for that).

Enjoying this thread immensely, welcome Phillip!

[Niveous]

I must say that this is the most elaborate welcome that I have ever seen here at Songfight. Welcome PW. I'm sure that your insights into music will be greatly appreciated here. It's always good to have a couple of deep thinkers around to add to the mix.

[Billy's Little Trip]

I agree with the above two comments. Many of the members here are well versed in music theory and many have gone to school to further their musical knowledge. I've been nothing more than a rogue rocker most of my life with the ability to arrange noise and passion into something catchy, sometimes. I'm now at the plateau of where I want to expand my knowledge, so this thread is awesome.

[Caravan Ray]

To quote one of my heroes, D. Boon...

Yeah - Boony's a legend

[Phillip Wilcher]

"Beauty limps"... I like that. Musically, the making of, is heart on the sleeve time. For me, anyway. Sometimes it's my own heart, and sometimes it's a fictional heart (though no less real to me for that).

Enjoying this thread immensely, welcome Phillip!

I like the idea of a "fictional" heart! Thanks for the welcome.

[Phillip Wilcher]

I must say that this is the most elaborate welcome that I have ever seen here at Songfight. Welcome PW. I'm sure that your insights into music will be greatly appreciated here. It's always good to have a couple of deep thinkers around to add to the mix.

Thanks Niveous! When my brain's geared for thought I'm OK - but the light isn't always on, trust me! Ideas bounce of each other and come and go....
cheers!

[Phillip Wilcher]

I agree with the above two comments. Many of the members here are well versed in music theory and many have gone to school to further their musical knowledge. I've been nothing more than a rogue rocker most of my life with the ability to arrange noise and passion into something catchy, sometimes. I'm now at the plateau of where I want to expand my knowledge, so this thread is awesome.

I think everyone plateaus. It's a part of one's development. The trick is to recognize it as such. It took me a long while to realize that plateaus and "dry spells" were needed in order to move forward. It's like a spiral - and in that spiraling there's a point where possibly the thing returns to its former self in order to reach the higher level . The artist Delacroix said something to this effect - but he was talking about revolution - and how all things return at some stage to their natural point of departure. Your ability to arrange "noise" and "passion" (that's wonderful!) into something catchy is what it's all about, really. To create something communicable, even if it only reaches one soul, is an achievement. It might be the greater achievement in that it's communication is more concentrated and doesn't suffer the fate of casual listening. There's no such thing as failure - only varying degrees of success, and success can mean many things. I believe happiness, or more precisely, a feeling of contentment is the greatest success of all. But I tend to fall into romanticizing about things a bit - perhaps too much! - is it "noise" you are arranging or "sound"? I'm not a rock musician - actually, I don't know what sort of a musician I am, really - but I've worked closely with rock musicians many years ago and I respected the very fact that rock music is a language in itself with its own vocabulary - it's a vital force, take it or leave it. With what I do, or I should say try to do, because I'm not convinced I am a musician, in the very real sense of the word, is where you say you arrange "noise" and "passion" , I weigh up sound, sometimes just to shape silence - like the valencies of some Merlin's potion - music is architecture in sound - it's also visual in that music in manuscript has a design to it. I may want to write a melody which arches in shape visually - I'll see the shape and then marry a sound to it. I'd say don't fret over reaching a plateau - ultimately you'll be the better for it, I'm sure. I think I'm always trying to catch creativity on the wing but I know too, that to do so would stem its flow. I've had moments when I've convinced myself that I've said all I had to say in music - or I've reached a point where it's simply over because I've ticked off my creative store of communicable ideas and written them out. I've no real guarantee of anything. But when my brain is wired to write something, it feels like I could scale a mountain. I'd say too, that I probably don't believe in my ability as much as some folk who know me do - but I see that as a positive thing because it propels me to prove myself more to me. The only person I'm in competition with is myself. But what will be will be......

[Billy's Little Trip]

It's like a spiral - and in that spiraling there's a point where possibly the thing returns to its former self in order to reach the higher level

I can relate to that. I think that we grow partially because we're influenced by others and we venture out and try new things. Some good and some that don't work for us. But as we venture out, we're leaving behind part of our selves. In fact, I feel that as I'm trying to do something musically that's not natural for me, I'm leaving behind the core of myself. I may be able to mimic it pretty good, as practice makes perfect, but it's not me. I do find myself going back to my roots quite often. The best part is that it allows me to see how much I've learned and changed, for better or worse.

[Phillip Wilcher]

It's like a spiral - and in that spiraling there's a point where possibly the thing returns to its former self in order to reach the higher level

I can relate to that. I think that we grow partially because we're influenced by others and we venture out and try new things. Some good and some that don't work for us. But as we venture out, we're leaving behind part of our selves. In fact, I feel that as I'm trying to do something musically that's not natural for me, I'm leaving behind the core of myself. I may be able to mimic it pretty good, as practice makes perfect, but it's not me. I do find myself going back to my roots quite often. The best part is that it allows me to see how much I've learned and changed, for better or worse.

So you are learning about yourself when you create something - yes??
You know, Virginia Woolf once said that when you share a thought with someone - or when you write a letter to someone, your thoughts are in part a reflection of the other person. Maybe we are all connected and through creating, whatever the genre, we're trying to find each other as well as ourself - ???

[Phillip Wilcher]

I agree with the above two comments. Many of the members here are well versed in music theory and many have gone to school to further their musical knowledge. I've been nothing more than a rogue rocker most of my life with the ability to arrange noise and passion into something catchy, sometimes. I'm now at the plateau of where I want to expand my knowledge, so this thread is awesome.

You could probably "shock" yourself out of a plateau by creating something the opposite to what you are feeling.....perhaps, by not leaving things to chance or waiting for "inspiration" - whatever that is.....

[Billy's Little Trip]

I agree with the above two comments. Many of the members here are well versed in music theory and many have gone to school to further their musical knowledge. I've been nothing more than a rogue rocker most of my life with the ability to arrange noise and passion into something catchy, sometimes. I'm now at the plateau of where I want to expand my knowledge, so this thread is awesome.

You could probably "shock" yourself out of a plateau by creating something the opposite to what you are feeling.....perhaps, by not leaving things to chance or waiting for "inspiration" - whatever that is.....

I actually do that here at Song Fight. Until I came here, I never in my life started a song based on a title, that someone else came up with no less. I have written songs based on a single picture or thought that struck a nerve with me, both good and bad.

[Phillip Wilcher]

I agree with the above two comments. Many of the members here are well versed in music theory and many have gone to school to further their musical knowledge. I've been nothing more than a rogue rocker most of my life with the ability to arrange noise and passion into something catchy, sometimes. I'm now at the plateau of where I want to expand my knowledge, so this thread is awesome.

You could probably "shock" yourself out of a plateau by creating something the opposite to what you are feeling.....perhaps, by not leaving things to chance or waiting for "inspiration" - whatever that is.....

I actually do that here at Song Fight. Until I came here, I never in my life started a song based on a title, that someone else came up with no less. I have written songs based on a single picture or thought that struck a nerve with me, both good and bad.

That's interesting! So Song Fight is a really positive thing! I write poetry now and then but hardly enough to warrant calling myself a poet. I don't write lyrics. I write art songs. I use existing poems as texts and set them to music. I used to be afraid of it - very afraid of it (isn't it funny how the thing we are afraid of is often the thing we most need??) and I would come up with excuses not to do it - I'd reason with myself that in setting someone elses words to music it meant I was only creating 50% of the work. Then one day I did it - I had to for my development. I fell in love with the genre and it's probably still my greatest passion. I love it's intimacy. I've come to believe that setting a given text to music is the surest way of developing your craft because the words are then your teacher. Without the words there can be no song. To a certain extent the words govern what you do, which I guess is much the same when you are given a title to work with. It flexes your imagination. I found too that there was always a natural melody inside the words - if I exaggerated the inflection of the spoken word, I found a melody waiting to be sung. My main tecaher always used to say to me about writing songs, set the words as you say them. He was correct. Words too have a natural rhythm and at times, even when I'm stuck for an idea just to write an instrumental piece, I'll use a line of poetry or a sentence to start a piece off and then way leads on to way. I also pay close attention to the sentiment of the words, their imagery, and even the grammar - if there is a comma, I account for that comma in the music. Titles too, like you have mentioned here with Song Fight can flex your imagination. Sometimes I think of a title first, or find a title mid-sentence in something I'm reading and live with it until I can marry a sound to it - or I'll write something first and then give it a title. Or, a title can be the opposite of what the music expresses like a square peg in a round hole.I once came across a symbolist poem titled "Scented Leaves from a Chinese Jar" - I loved it!! I knew I had to use it as a title for a piano piece, but do you know, I carried that title around in my head for 20 years before the music I wrote for it made itself known to me. That's kind of crazy! The music had to smell like scented leaves from a chinese jar. It had to be a fragrance, almost something not there. Some time ago I wrote a set of 8 piano pieces, each with a title - and the titles were good - but recently I removed all the titles before they were published and simply numbered the pieces 1-V111 - NOT having titles seemed to give them an added strength - possibly too it was a safety net - a bit of a cop out, in case the original titles didn't gel with the music in other people's eyes - I mean ears! How did Song Fight come about ? Is there a classical counterpart? I notice most of the people who have been sharing ideas with me (it's great, I love it!!) are based in the United States - yes?? Cheers for now.....and keep achieving! Thanks for the healthy thoughts.....

[Phillip Wilcher]

Woo-hoo - I've just noticed I've become a Death Pod!!!!

[HeuristicsInc]

Songfight titles as inspiration - definitely. The title leads you to think about things you might not have thought of otherwise. I don't think I would have thought to write a song about a businessman quitting the corporate world to go live with the lions without the title "Bad Cat" to work from, for example (the lyrics were written in conjunction with j$ for that one). Sometimes the process of finding an interesting title interpretation can be a very good creative writing exercise.

Also, the deadline can be both good and bad - the song will get done, or it will not, but if you're very invested you'll work like heck to get the song done in time, so it can be good for productivity.
-bill

[Caravan Ray]

"Scented Leaves from a Chinese Jar"

Put that one on your list, Deep Throat.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Songfight titles as inspiration - definitely. The title leads you to think about things you might not have thought of otherwise. I don't think I would have thought to write a song about a businessman quitting the corporate world to go live with the lions without the title "Bad Cat" to work from, for example (the lyrics were written in conjunction with j$ for that one). Sometimes the process of finding an interesting title interpretation can be a very good creative writing exercise.

Also, the deadline can be both good and bad - the song will get done, or it will not, but if you're very invested you'll work like heck to get the song done in time, so it can be good for productivity.
-bill

I agree. I was a little reluctant at first to write a song based on some random title. But after I let myself go and allowed my imagination lead me, as apposed to my emotions, I found that I had some uncharted territory to explore. But it's funny that when my imaginations creation finally came out of my mouth, my emotions take the wheel again.

[Phillip Wilcher]

When you are all working to certain deadlines, and in the throws of writing a song, are you aware of time passing - do you actually lose time, and is there a winding down period, when you feel like you are almost trying to make up for that lost time which wasn't lost at all?? I sometimes feel that writing music, suspends time to lend a longevity to your life. Yes?/No? How deep is that!!??!! Another crazy notion, I guess....cheers everyone!

[Billy's Little Trip]

When I get in the zone, I've been told that I look empty or gone. The time thing, totally! And yes, it takes me a few to get back.