HOAs - Good or Bad?

[Billy's Little Trip]

I have never dealt with a homeowners association that weren't either complete thieves or completely useless.

This story caught my eye and I got sucked in. I've been following it for just a short while.
In brief, This guy lives in a community that has an HOA, located in Arizona. The HOA decided that it was necessary to force all the residents to pay for parking passes in order to park in their own streets right in front of their houses, which is technically their driveway because he lives in a condo-like complex. Anyway, one day after work, he forgot to put up his parking pass in his rear view mirror. He had been parking in the same spot for 3 months, and the parking enforcement company hired by the HOA booted his car, knowing full well that he has a pass and he lives there.

When the guy saw the two boots on his Audi, he decided he wasn't going to pay the $140 dollars to take the boots off. This Audi was his project car, and he didn't need to drive it. So, instead of paying to take the boots off, he put a dolly under each wheel, and rolled the sucker into his garage. The guy owns his house, so the parking enforcement company (Arizona Parking Solutions, APS) cannot come on his property to tow the car. APS eventually found out about this and that's when shit really started to hit the fan. He called the company and told them to come get their boots. So the OWNER of the company came over to see what was going on. When he saw the Audi still booted but in the guy's garage, he nearly lost his mind, seeing as the guy didn't steal or damage the boots. So here in lies a catch 22. The guy will not pay the $140, but he kindly told the APS they could retrieve their boots whenever they wanted. Instead of doing so, the APS began booting nearly every vehicle in the community in retaliation. Crazy story.

http://www.parkingenforcementforum.com/ ... hp?f=3&t=3

[Sober]

I don't see how this story could possibly tilt the scales in favor of 'good.'

[Billy's Little Trip]

Yeah, it's a crappy title. BUT, they do keep neighborhoods from becoming slums. I suppose a person could just follow every single rule. But sometimes I feel like so many rules are put in place in hopes of people slipping up.

By the way, his latest updates are great.
There has been so much attention of this matter via the Internet, that someone that read about this, emailed the owner of APS (the parking enforcement company) and threatened to cut off his balls, LMAO!!
The owner filed a complaint and the police went to the Audi guys house to investigate. He explained that he had nothing to do with that and he has no control over the rest of the world, etc etc.

[HeuristicsInc]

We have a pretty good one - it's actually optional, and they don't say "you can't do this" but rather they represent us to the elected officials, and a lot of them actually come to our meetings. It's pretty cool to have a group that represents your interests without causing unnecessary issues.
-bill

[Spud]

I have been president of our HOA on two occassions. During these periods, the number of rules has been reduced. Whenever I am not president, the number of rules increase. I find that most people, when put in a position of power, like to make rules for other people to follow. When I was president, I refused to take complaints of a person breaking a rule. I made them tell me what problem was being caused by the rule being broken. I also put up a motion to the board that if a rule is broken 3 times by owners, it should automatically come up for review, since it is probably a bad rule. Why do we have rules that the owners themselves want to break?

SPUD

[Billy's Little Trip]

Well Spud, if more HOAs had board members like you, things would be much better. The owners of these HOAs are either on the board or have someone inside on the board always convincing the residence on the board that they need more rules and stiffer penalties. There is always a head douche bag that will f**k things up.

[jb]

head douche bag

You're doing it wrong.

[Caravan Ray]

What do you mean by a HOA? (I wikied - but that wasn't very helpful)

Is that like a body corporate?

(From Wiki:
In Australia, the term "body corporate" also refers to a home owners association in Australia charged with the administration of one or more housing units. These associations are incorporated under the relevant property legislation, and thus are bodies corporate in the legal sense. Owners pay a monthly fee to provide for common maintenance and help cover future repair)

[Spud]

What do you mean by a HOA? (I wikied - but that wasn't very helpful)

Is that like a body corporate?

(From Wiki:
In Australia, the term "body corporate" also refers to a Home Owners Association in Australia charged with the administration of one or more housing units. These associations are incorporated under the relevant property legislation, and thus are bodies corporate in the legal sense. Owners pay a monthly fee to provide for common maintenance and help cover future repair)

[Billy's Little Trip]

head douche bag

You're doing it wrong.

I just peed a little.

edit ....into my douche bag.

[fluffy]

Neighborhood HOAs for detached houses are generally ridiculous and pointless. The only thing they really have any right to cover are already covered by residential zoning laws.

Condominium HOAs are a very important thing, and good ones keep the bylaws and such minimal and only deal with where people naturally intrude upon each other (common areas, noise, etc.), and they are also a vital part of the legal framework which makes condominiums possible.

It's very important to keep the two types separate.

[Billy's Little Trip]

I agree Fluf, but wouldn't it bug you if your complex decided to make you start paying a monthly fee for a parking pass, on top of your HOA dues? Then boot your car if you forget to hang your pass on your rear view mirror, then the only way to get the boot off is pay $140 bux to the tow company. I'd fucking FLIP!

[fluffy]

That's another thing HOAs are supposed to prevent, and which is generally supposed to be handled by the deeding of the property. For example, I will *own* the parking space for the condo I'm buying, even though it's part of the garage (a common area).

If the HOA actually owns the driveways, then it is their right to suddenly change the usage of them, but at least for condos a parking space is usually a common area which is deeded to the unit (I don't know how common that is for neighborhood HOAs though, and it's not universal for condos either).

Also, the HOA is generally not allowed to simply enact bylaws and change things like that without first taking a vote from those who own an interest in the HOA. If people were simply not attending the HOA meetings and allowed the board members to enact such a ridiculous rule, that's their own damn fault - but if the HOA acted without resident approval (and it's not stated in the bylaws that they can do that), then IMO the residents should sue the HOA for breach of contract.

Further, I wonder how much of a case the car owner has against the parking enforcement company - they have essentially vandalized his car (via the window sticker and the damage to his tire). He could quite easily turn the tables on them by pressing charges against them.

[Billy's Little Trip]

I'm bummed that the bottom of his thread is messed up. He has updates that I can't read.

[Spud]

Neighborhood HOAs for detached houses are generally ridiculous and pointless. The only thing they really have any right to cover are already covered by residential zoning laws.

I must respectfully disagree. The upkeep and maintenance of those areas is not covered by any zoning. Liability for what happens in those areas is a question of ownership. There are many people who live in these type of communities (especially so called "age qualified" communities) who prefer to spread the responsibility and liability amongst the group.

[fluffy]

Well I was thinking along the lines of plant overgrowth, cars up on cinder blocks, etc. I don't know how it is in Seattle but in New Mexico the various local governments are very strict about a lot of those things, so there's no need for a neighborhood HOA to regulate things which actually provide an eyesore or an environmental hazard.

Neighborhood HOAs do exist in NM but they do stupid bullshit like regulating what sorts of colors you paint your house and whatever.

My parents' neighborhood has an HOA, which actually has *optional* membership (which they haven't had for years and years), which turns it into sort of a weird us-vs-them sort of thing. My understanding is that actual membership in the HOA has been declining like crazy. The HOA is also tied to the neighborhood's country club in some weird relationship. As far as stuff outside of installation of speed bumps and the endless debate regarding what should happen with the access to the nearby unincorporated open space, the HOA doesn't seem to do much, otherwise.

[Spud]

I wasn't talking about regulations. I was talking about actually doing the work. HOAs do more than make rules. They do stuff, too. If we are talking about the type that do nothing but make rules, then yeah, bullshit on that.

[fluffy]

Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, that is a useful HOA function.

[Billy's Little Trip]

My HOA is a pain in the ass. Most of the homeowner board members are people that feel they need power over others and this is their way to do that. The HOA owners/head douches lets them as long as they enforce their many rules. That has changed some because we have a few honest board members, but they fight tooth and nail with the old hard asses on the board.
When I'm taking the boat out for the weekend, I like to pick it up from my storage yard on Friday afternoon so I can clean it up, change the plugs, etc and to get an early start Saturday morning. Within 1 hour I will have a knock on my door reminding me that if I keep it parked in my driveway for more than 48 hours, they will call to have it towed at my expense, etc. So I let them know it will be gone tomorrow, I'm taking it out for the weekend. Then when I get back Sunday night, it sits in my driveway until Monday morning because I'm usually tired when I get back and I like to flush the engine before I take it back to my storage yard. So I'll get a different board member knocking at my door Sunday night and again bright and early Monday morning. Then I get a warning mailed to me that says that they had to tell me 3 times to remove my boat and that if it is ever there more than 48 hours, I will get a $125 fine per occurrence.

They tried to get this changed to 12 hours or towed, but all of the residents went to the meeting that they did their best to keep a secret. We have a guy in our neighborhood that got sick of the HOAs BS and got elected as a board member. They voted against him every time he tried. But then he sent us all a personal letter that he was running to help change things and the date for the voting. This is the first time we've ever been notified for voting. We voted him in as well as a few others, since. We now get a letter mailed to us for each open meeting and every voting of new board members. They still have closed meeting, but those are mostly for things like hiring landscape maintenance, etc. They pretty much just go with the lowest bid. But we did find out about 6 months ago that the brother of one of the CEO's of the HOA own the landscape maintenance company that has won the contract for the past 10 years. They investigated it and his bothers bid was $1.00 lower than the middle bid on each contract renewal, which is annually. He denied giving his brother inside info, and they not only let it go, but they promoted him to something like VP. Totally corrupt, but we "are" getting the "least expensive" landscape maintenance around.

[Caravan Ray]

I wasn't talking about regulations. I was talking about actually doing the work. HOAs do more than make rules. They do stuff, too. If we are talking about the type that do nothing but make rules, then yeah, bullshit on that.

This is bit I am not understanding.

The function of a body corporate is to manage those assets which are effectively joint owned by the owners of individual units in a block of flats (roof, grounds, etc) Are you saying that you have HOAs that set themselves up as quasi local governments to manage groups of detached houses?

[fluffy]

Yes, that is mostly how the HOA in my parents' neighborhood operates, aside from the country club (which is a huge waste of water) and the speed bumps, which of course only encourage rowdy drivers to drive faster, as they have a tendency to do..

[fluffy]

Huh, the satellite photography hasn't been updated for a while in that area. The lot across the street from my parents' house is still empty in these pictures, when there's been a huge and butt-ugly McMansion there for several years now.