Nur Ein VI Round Three "Unholy Alliance"

[dantes]

Look at the previous page.

[frankie big face]

could someone please tell me where to find the results of round 3 without scanning a barrage of messages and posts?
Thank you.

You could also try the thread called "Nur Ein VI: Titles, Songs & Results (no comments)".

[WeaselSlayer]

I'm really happy that I finally got through at least a couple of rounds in Nur Ein. After two tries before of false starts and flake outs, it was nice to be eliminated by something other than my own laziness. Also, I'm pretty sure that I've been bitten by the songwriting bug again, and hope to see you all in more regular songfights from now on! And I got a new side project out of it. You can count on Venereal Horror to bring you much more brutal blackened death in the near future. Thanks for everything, and NUR EIN?????

Oh and reviews to come, but man are they going to be bitter.

[bambamoozle]

John Kloberdanz: Wow, this is... pretty.

Pretty is what I aimed for. Thank you for noticing.

I'm ok with 6th place, one point away from 5th, considering the competition. Many, many good songs, and I made it to Round 4!

Thank you Lyn for singing with me!

NUR EIN!!!!

[Billy's Little Trip]

Billy's Little Trip - usual boring awesomeness. Just CHILL OUT, dude. No, I mean DON'T. Just keep coming back and bring the frock.

I'm so confused.
...so I'll just keep coming back until it all makes cents scents sense.

[Manhattan Glutton]

Sweet. I didn't have time this week anyway, but I'll try to come up with some immunity something.

Sad to see you go, J.E., glenn, and luke.

[Billy's Little Trip]

The results are in:

The winner by a hair is Manhattan Glutton
The bottom three are Glen Raphael, Luke Henley and Jon Eric. Tschüss!

Manhattan Glutton - 59
WreckdoM - 57
FBF - 51
WSA - 51
Paco Del Stinko - 44
John Kloberdanz - 43
Ross Durand - 41
DJ Ranger Den - 39
BLT - 36
Bram Tant - 20
Jon Eric - 15
Luke Henley - 12

Judging Breakdown coming soon. It's all over the place!

I'm bummed that I came in so low in the pack with this song. But considering how weak my duet is in comparison, I guess I'm lucky I'm not out from this round. Mine does just sound more like a harmony compared to the rest here. Even though a duet is "two performers or singers who perform together" and most of what is here this week is call and response or swapping lines, which is a much stronger use of a twosome.

Oh, and congrats MG! Good song and duet. I liked it.

[glennny]

Kloberdanz wrote:

WSA - This one didn't float my boat. The members of WSA don't get my music (compare my rankings this NE vs. NEIV) and I don't get yours either. Voices didn't mess well for me. Will live on.

That may be somewhat true, but probably not that severe. I think you've stepped up your game in a big way. You're writing better songs with better production. I'll take any song from this year over any of your songs in Nur Ein IV. I think I get your music, you just have some hefty competition. Anyway, good song! Glad you live on!

[Caravan Ray]

Also, it's "Bram", not "Bran".

No, I think it's "Bran" from now on.

Fibre rock. Music that moves us.

[JonPorobil]

Reviews from the fallen!

Billy's Little Trip - Great song. I don't hear a collaborator, and worse yet, the song doesn't sound like it was written for two parts. So whatever other voice is in there, he isn't really adding anything to the song. These are some of your best lyrics ever, though.

Bram Tant - This, on the other hand. It's a dialogue in song. Perfect incorporation of the title. Unfortunately, you and your collaborator are very similar in vocal timbre, and you both appear to have the same accent (which, by the way, is far more noticable than in your other songs - what gives?). This makes it difficult to distinguish which part is being sung. You also have some trouble nailing down the voice of the government man. His part seems to have been written to create a conversation, but the voice with which he's written makes it clear which side of the fence you (as the writer) land on. I can't picture anyone legitimately saying "You are part of the hive."

DJ Ranger Den - Three listens in, and I don't really remember this. Not a good sign. Loading it up again... Okay. Nice piano as usual. The lyrics are seem a little more intent on being euphonic and clever than in telling a story. I do like how the voices interplay. Good harmonies, and when they get into a round later, it's very pleasant. I'm just not hearing anything "unholy" here. Nor anything resembling a hook. And that makes it hard for me to get invested in this song or its performers/characters/

Frankie Big Face - "We don't eat pigs / You don't eat pigs / Seems it's been that way forever / So if we don't eat pigs / And you don't eat pigs / Why not not eat pigs together?" Notwithstanding the fact that Tim Minchin has tread similar ground before with great success, this is highly endearing. From the first two lines, I thought I would hate this, but I was laughing out loud by the end. Always good to hear from JB, as well. Why didn't this win? I'd have put it #1 this week by a lot.

John Kloberdanz - Here we go with the different mic business again. It seems that LML recorded her vocals on a much lower-quality microphone than you did, John. Did you intentionally add wind effects to cover up the quality discrepancy and make her sound more ghostly? If so, it's a clever gambit that comes close to succeeding, but I would have put a more subtle fade-in/fade-out on the wind to make its appearance less jarring. I know good foley work is tough to find, so I'll quit harping on it. This is a pretty good story, even if it is a bit overwrought when it comes to incorporating the title. Still, I'd rather hear something adventurous that doesn't succeed 100% than something boring, so mission accomplished.

Luke Henley - If you can get past the really terrible demon voice, this becomes one of the more listenable things you've done recently. There's a clear sense of cadence and melody hiding underneath that needlessly awful affectation, and the lyrics are decent too. Too bad you painted a mustache on it.

Manhattan Glutton - Perfectly-recorded. You tell a good yarn when you set your mind to it. I was wondering for most of this track whether the story is meant to be taken at face value or whether they're singing about something that's happening to them in a video game of some kind. It hardly matters; this song is fine for what it is. I'd have ranked it #2 if I'd been a judge.

Paco del Stinko - Jesus and Lucifer. Can't get more unholy than that. Actually, though, when the first chorus comes in, you're singing about some "unholy alliance," but Lucifer hasn't been introduced yet, which made me wonder when I was listening the first time. I'd suggest cutting that chorus. It would also have the effect of making the song shorter and leaner. Fine recording. Good work.

Ross Durand - Your status as a duet in this round is not in question with me. A fine interpretation of both the title and the challenge, and Steve's trumpet has never sounded clearer. Good luck in future rounds!

WSA - I can't believe glennny was busting my chops for my song "not being a duet" when this is as ornately arranged as it is. Seriously, this is unquestionably a duet, even though it's got two guitars, bass, drums, and multiple synths in addition to the two voices. Why the semantics? Sorry, I'm ranting, and it's pretty clear that Glennny was not the primary creative source for this song. I'm a little puzzled about the provenience of the title in this song, but I'm willing to have faith that you knew what you were writing about, and I'm just missing something. Well written, well recorded, and well performed. I just feel like I'm still missing something that is likely to reveal itself to me in future listens.

WreckdoM - The cute children's-story-style interplay between the two leads is fun, as is some of the juvenile language, when contrasted with the lyrical content - the male singer is clearly forcing himself on her. But that whole mood falls apart and raises some uncomfortable questions when she joins in the unison harmony of "Just take your pants off." Why the sudden about-face? How do you go from "You're a freak... you smell like poo... you're grossing me out" to "Just take your pants off"? That confusion makes me feel very lukewarm about a track that might have otherwise been a contender this week.

[JonPorobil]

Jon Eric- Mad props for the guts to do an instrumental. But drums + piano + guitar is a trio, not a duet. Wait, there’s a soft bass, you’re a quartet. This is not a duet. Nice guitar playing! There’s rhythm guitar too (quintet). I enjoyed this, I’d worry about a DQ. Musically (since this is an instrumental) what is the unholy alliance? It’s not like it’s Tuba and picalo or something odd. Piano and guitar is rather standard.

I think you're conflating the terms "duet" and "duo."

Simon and Garfunkel were a duo. They sang (more often than not) duets. Some of these duets had more than two instruments, but they were still duets.

Consider the White Stripes. They did a number of songs with just the two of them and no multitracking - just Jack on guitar and vocals, and Meg on drums and backing vocals. These were, by and large, not considered duets. A song cannot be considered a quartet or a quintet. The Beatles were a quartet. Dave Matthews Band was a quintet. Their songs were just songs.

Consider "Beat It" by Michael Jackson. What's that section where Eddie van Halen shreds on his guitar starting at 2:48? I don't think anyone would argue with its classification as the "solo" in the song. Even though there's bass, drums, and synth continuing to vamp, it's a guitar solo.

The presence of other instruments doesn't negate a song's classification as a duet, just so long as only two instruments carry the melody. Just as in the WSA's "Unholy Alliance," the two singers carry the whole melody of the song, so the drums, bass, and guitars don't negate its status as a "duet."

Okay, you want to question my relevance to the title. Fine, I'll own that. Some people have handicapped me just for not having lyrics in the first place. I knew the risk when I made that decision (irritated nonetheless by how it manifested in some of the judges' scoring systems, but that's part of the risk). I got eliminated this round, and by my own admission, I probably deserved it. But if you're going to say my track isn't even a duet? That's where I'm calling B.S. right there, man.

[glennny]

To me a duet was one of 2 things:

A) a normal song with 2 vocalists that interplay

B) only 2 instruments; a duo (guilty of accused conflation)

I was asking for judges clarification.

I'm happy to accept Ross's definition where there are 2 voices that interplay even if one is a muted trumpet.

I can't say I can listen to your song and walk away saying I just heard a duet. I liked it. It's a nice instrumental, I just don't get the title or the challenge from it.

I've heard things called duets that were just piano and guitar, or just guitar and guitar, or violin and piano. None of them had backing bands.

I'm totally willing to expand my definition, but I'm not convinced yet.
Didn't mean to "bust your chops", just telling you what I thought.

I very much respect the effort of trying to pull of an instrumental though.

[roymond]

Billy's Little Trip - usual boring awesomeness. Just CHILL OUT, dude. No, I mean DON'T. Just keep coming back and bring the frock.

I'm so confused.
...so I'll just keep coming back until it all makes cents scents sense.

I'm unable to expand on these at this time so I just wanted to be excited. Don't read too far into what was sent(s).

[Ross]

Thanks judges for the passing ranking. I'm looking forward to the detail scores. A special thanks to my bro, Steve, for the excellent femme fatale trumpeting!

On to Round 4

Nur Ein!!!!

[JonPorobil]

To me a duet was one of 2 things:

A) a normal song with 2 vocalists that interplay

B) only 2 instruments; a duo (guilty of accused conflation)

I was asking for judges clarification.

I'm happy to accept Ross's definition where there are 2 voices that interplay even if one is a muted trumpet.

I can't say I can listen to your song and walk away saying I just heard a duet. I liked it. It's a nice instrumental, I just don't get the title or the challenge from it.

I've heard things called duets that were just piano and guitar, or just guitar and guitar, or violin and piano. None of them had backing bands.

I'm totally willing to expand my definition, but I'm not convinced yet.
Didn't mean to "bust your chops", just telling you what I thought.

Okay, fair enough. Your review just got under my skin enough for me to want to comment on it.

I very much respect the effort of trying to pull of an instrumental though.

I was hoping that'd be worth more than it turned out to be worth. C'est la vie. See you next year!

NUR EIN!!!

[roymond]

Jon, I hear some solos being traded, but not something that evokes "duet". I went to the Saratoga Jazz Festival some years ago. George Benson was on stage, playing "On Broadway". He sang and played his octave guitar solos, with Herbie on piano joined by Chick Corea on the same piano and sharing the stool. Then out jumps Jeff Beck on a Les Paul and he wails into a ripping solo that seems the predecessor to your tune here. There weren't any duets. Lots of solos but no interactions. They seemed to want to grind Benson's song, which everyone on earth was tired of at that point, into the ground. And they did it.

[JonPorobil]

Jon, I hear some solos being traded, but not something that evokes "duet". I went to the Saratoga Jazz Festival some years ago. George Benson was on stage, playing "On Broadway". He sang and played his octave guitar solos, with Herbie on piano joined by Chick Corea on the same piano and sharing the stool. Then out jumps Jeff Beck on a Les Paul and he wails into a ripping solo that seems the predecessor to your tune here. There weren't any duets. Lots of solos but no interactions. They seemed to want to grind Benson's song, which everyone on earth was tired of at that point, into the ground. And they did it.

Roymond, I really appreciate that commentary. I didn't want to seem like a poor sport (well, more than I already had), but your actual review left me feeling kind of taken aback. This is a much more in-depth explanation of your ranking.

And while I'm at it, in general I've been very impressed with and grateful for the thorough reviews from the judges. They've been better-thought-out and more reliable than in past years, and I do not take that for granted. Thank you all.

NUR EIN!!!

[roymond]

I should point out that the contrast in tone between your piano meanderings and the raunchy guitar solo fits the title better than the challenge.

[Billy's Little Trip]

Billy's Little Trip - Great song. I don't hear a collaborator, and worse yet, the song doesn't sound like it was written for two parts. So whatever other voice is in there, he isn't really adding anything to the song. These are some of your best lyrics ever, though.

Although my first attempt was a call and response type failure, why do you feel a song should be written for a duet? Just because the history of music make one think a duet is interplay between two people, it isn't. It's two performers or singers performing together. That would mean two people and whatever instruments/voices those two can play. So in that meaning, no one here did a true duet.

BUT, Nur Ein has human judges with human senses and emotions. They rank on a curve.

And also, Jon. You couldn't honestly think you were going to get away with an instrumental half way into Nur Ein, did you? But I like that you defend what you did. You have balls and I liked your song, you hairy little Hebrew rebel you.

[JonPorobil]

Billy's Little Trip - Great song. I don't hear a collaborator, and worse yet, the song doesn't sound like it was written for two parts. So whatever other voice is in there, he isn't really adding anything to the song. These are some of your best lyrics ever, though.

Although my first attempt was a call and response type failure, why do you feel a song should be written for a duet? Just because the history of music make one think a duet is interplay between two people, it isn't. It's two performers or singers performing together. That would mean two people and whatever instruments/voices those two can play. So in that meaning, no one here did a true duet.

Good point, but it does make it harder to defend when listeners can't pick your duet partner out of the mix.

[WeaselSlayer]

Here's my thoughts y'all.

Billy's Little Trip - I like the intro a lot. Swoops into a pretty ace groove after that. I like the sort of classic rock/would-have-been-heavy-metal-in-the-70's vibe. Kind of hits a Jane's Addiction vibe too. All in all, very enjoyable.

Bram Tant - Iffy lyrics to me. Musically kind of iffy, too. Just not very interesting and a little silly.

DJ Ranger Den - I think each round your songs have gotten better. I like the integration of the duet in here, and I like your voice much better when you really sing instead of the sort of talk-singing I've been hearing. It's quite good.

Frankie Big Face - Very cute and extremely clever. The music is sort of annoying, but in a really enjoyable way. Hits that sweet spot between earnestness and parody that brings Ween to mind. I'm glad it ended happily and without religion.

John Kloberdanz - I like the lyrical approach, but some of the wordplay takes away from the impact for me (tall glass of grief stands out to me). I like the Leonard Cohen vibe.

Jon Eric - Off to a pretty cheesy start. And it's not letting up. Ok so this is the song, isn't it. I would have liked some lyrics. The guitar solo makes no sense to me in context to the rest of the song.

Manhattan Glutton - Pretty good power pop leading into this. I like the music and the melodies, but I hate the lyrics. I think it's personal taste rather than actual execution, though. If you had a goofy voice I might like the song about aliens more. Because then I would just think of it as a really good Supernova homage.

Paco del Stinko - I like the variety in this round so far. This is super grungey and I'm enjoying the hell out of that. Well, parts of it are in totally different styles as well. I like your ability here to travel in and out of a lot of things at once. You pull it off admirably. Twisty turny, never boring.

Ross Durand - Another, totally different-sounding take on this round. Cool noir vibe. Great horn-playing on Steve's part, as always.

The Worldly Self Assurance - Pretty good. Not as strong as previous entries maybe, but still high standard of excellence. I like the lyrics.

WreckdoM - Definitely my favorite of the bunch. Kind of like a punkier, raunchier version of John Prine's "In Spite of Ourselves" by way of Jon Wayne, with whom I've compared your work a couple times before. Just really great and hilarious, but sweet too.

[Caravan Ray]

Frankie Big Face - "We don't eat pigs / You don't eat pigs / Seems it's been that way forever / So if we don't eat pigs / And you don't eat pigs / Why not not eat pigs together?" .

Heh! Yes that jumped to mind immediately for me too.

But since you mention Tim Minchin - @Frankie - to further explain my comments that you didn't attack the subject hard enough, there is no better way to illustrate what I meant than by referring you to Mr Minchin's excellent Pope Song (NSFW)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HzO6s1v ... re=related

That is how to put the boot in. Actually - in hindsight, it is a shame the challenge was "Duet" and not "Trio". If you had have added a kiddie-fiddling Catholic Priest as a third character in your song - I would have felt right at home with it.

And @Jon Eric - sorry to see you go - but damn, you seemed to be going out of your way to piss me off with your last two songs. You should have stuck with the Mayan Human Sacrifice Ballad genre - that first song was cool.


...and oh yeah Jon

getting back to Tim Minchin - a few weeks ago he performed at the Sydney Opera House backed by the Sydney Symphony Orchestra. It was meant to have been broadcast live on television - but the ABC stuffed up the live feed - but it was shown a few days later. Not sure where you could see it on the internet anywhere, but it was pretty impressive if you ever get a chance to see it.