I got Nothin' (Nothing Day Reviews)

fluffy · Post by **fluffy** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:32 am

Leaf wrote:Furthermore, the overtone series works in a way where you have your fundemental pitch (let's use A again) and in the series, the next strongest harmonic is the dominant (E, the fifth, in this case) followed by the subdominant (D, the fourth) the mediant (c#, the major third) the submediant,( F#, the major 6th) , the ... damn... I'm doing this from memory.. and I'm at work, so I don't have my Mergel text book handy... anyway the seventh is called the leading tone..

Overtones and harmonics are one thing, but the 12-tone scale is only an approximation of those overtones. The frequency ratio between a note and its overtone is 1.5, while the frequency ratio between a note and its 5th note (in the chromatic 12-tone scale) is 1.498 (which makes a big difference). The overtone's overtone has a ratio of 2.25 to the root note, while in the chromatic scale it's 2.245. If you were to keep on going up a fifth based purely on overtones you'd never actually get back to the root note (even if you do go down an octave to keep yourself within the original octave range).

Here's a table of the frequency ratio between the chromatic-scale circle of fifths and the frequencies you get by finding subsequent overtones and bringing them back into the original octave:

Code: Select all

fifth   overtones       chromatic       ratio
0       1.000000        1.000000        1.000000
1       1.500000        1.498307        1.001130
2       1.125000        1.122462        1.002261
3       1.687500        1.681793        1.003393
4       1.265625        1.259921        1.004527
5       1.898438        1.887749        1.005662
6       1.423828        1.414214        1.006799
7       1.067871        1.059463        1.007936
8       1.601807        1.587401        1.009075
9       1.201355        1.189207        1.010215
10      1.802032        1.781797        1.011357
11      1.351524        1.334840        1.012499
12      1.013643        1.000000        1.013643
13      1.520465        1.498307        1.014789
14      1.140349        1.122462        1.015935
15      1.710523        1.681793        1.017083
16      1.282892        1.259921        1.018232
17      1.924338        1.887749        1.019383
18      1.443254        1.414214        1.020535
19      1.082440        1.059463        1.021688
20      1.623661        1.587401        1.022842
21      1.217745        1.189207        1.023998
22      1.826618        1.781798        1.025155
23      1.369964        1.334840        1.026313
24      1.027473        1.000000        1.027473

As you can see, they drift further and further apart.

You can actually generate any tempered scale with any arbitrary number of divisions by using the frequency ratios in the 'overtone' column above and you'll still get a good-sounding scale out of it (though it won't be readily transposable).

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:40 am

YEs... funny. Cause after I posted that, I re-read again, saw the 12 tone comment, comphrended it, and knew.

I was addressing your comment (I should use quotes...sorry) that implied that only the octave was a natural thing...but you are absolutely correct when we start talking about the neat things we do when we impose artificial structures like harmonic minor modes and 12 tone scales and chromatism and whole tones and the lot. That stuff is human fuckery with nature...something we're damn good at though.

Kill Me Sarah · Post by **Kill Me Sarah** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:53 am

Out of curiosity, did you all go to school for all of this baffling knowledge or is it stuff you've gleaned along the way. It's really fascinating, even though I don't understand it all. But it's all stuff I'd really like to learn someday. My musical knowledge is really paltry in comparison to what I would like it to be. I still don't even full understand scales and keys, because I've never really taken lessons, so right now my musical aspirations far outreach my abilities/knowledge.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:57 am

It's never too late to start taking lessons. I personally learnt about the harmonic overtone series at school... it blew my mind... it made electronic drums make sense to me...(in terms of how the sound is re-created digitally...) but as loathe as you may be to read this again...google is the school of this decade. A few hours of reading and you can have a few people's perspective on any topic. I"m sure there's lots of misinformation...but it all feeds the head in some way as long as you are a critical thinker.

Of course, I was believing the chappelle theory for the first few pages...so I'm one to talk.

Post by **Spud** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:59 am

fluffy has more baffling knowledge than anyone.

Kill Me Sarah · Post by **Kill Me Sarah** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:13 am

Leaf wrote:...as loathe as you may be to read this again...google is the school of this decade.

Actually it's nice to know people are getting their info for free on their own. I was afraid you both were going to say you had scholarships to Juliard or something.

furrypedro · Post by **furrypedro** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:30 am

some thoughts...

nano & hefty for fuck's sake

Sandcastle forgery pretty cool in a weird way
wally not for me, but you did it well
tom dg haha nice one
c hack bits of this are really nice
kms quite a good song there
hoblit some of these chords disagree with me. it still rocks
dolphins guitar's quite good. vox too loud and too boring
Ausgequetschte Zitrone really cool in an 'afx Ambient works '85-'92' kind of way
doscientos i like this one
finding nemoy good name. i dunno why this one got to me more than the other slightly emo-ish ones this week, i think there's something slightly old school about it and i like that you missed some notes. i hope you stick around.
denyer sorry, could you hold on one second 'cause my fish is on fire. swell

sorry to those i didn't mention

Jacob Lynn, nice fucking track. vote

c hack · Post by **c hack** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:16 pm

burstroc wrote: c hack:
... i'm going to have to take out some points on this song for lack of originality.

Huh? How is it not original?

Wally Harbinger · Post by **Wally Harbinger** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:23 pm

Wages wrote: My friend says there's a high piercing sound somewhere in there that's dreadful.

now that i listen for it i think i might know what your friend is talking about. there's a hi-hat in the bontempi rhythm ace part that i would definitely eq down if i remixed this.

at least i hope that's it. i like to keep the dreadful piercing stuff in my tunes to a minimum.

thanks

Your Money Wasted · Post by **Your Money Wasted** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:53 pm

c hack wrote:
burstroc wrote:c hack:
... i'm going to have to take out some points on this song for lack of originality.
Huh? How is it not original?

the verse contains the chord progression D F#m G A and the chorus is G A D, if i'm interpreting correctly. the structure is verse-chorus-verse-chorus. the style is tried. the lyrics are great, it's a nice tune and a pleasant sound, and you're a good guitar player, but i'm just thinking you could have done a few more things to make this song stand out from the rest!

i know i could stand to be a bit more original as well. after all, the verse in the ymw entry for "i like to pretend" went Em C Am B. so that's something i'm working on too. in any case i appreciate your entry and i look forward to hearing more from you in the future. :)

@eclectic spOOns wrote:Holy f*ck!! cheers mate!!

well, it was good! i don't know what it is with me and tragic songs, but they really get to me. plus the mixture of sounds was just right, and the imagery was right there. good good job.

Kill Me Sarah · Post by **Kill Me Sarah** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:42 pm

Congrats on the win Spoons.

I have no idea which three people voted for me, but thank you very much. It's three votes more than I expected.

Nigel (spOOn) Clements · Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:49 pm

kill_me_sarah wrote:Congrats on the win Spoons.

Thank you very much, am currently in a complete state of shock!

Wally Harbinger · Post by **Wally Harbinger** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:58 pm

yes, stoutly done!

boltoph · Post by **boltoph** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:22 pm

kill_me_sarah wrote:This board has been the first place I've read about musical sounds being measured in hz.

Bwaaaaaaaa! Hahahahaha

Fact of science: the human ear hears 20Hz to 20,000Hz, roughly.
Fact of fiction: Bass frequencies are never muddy. Trebles never sting.

Hoblit wrote:trial and error

Exactamundopolasticly! yes.

Kill Me Sarah · Post by **Kill Me Sarah** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:27 pm

boltoph wrote:[Bwaaaaaaaa! Hahahahaha

Are you making fun of me? Ouch, that Hz.

Zing!

c hack · Post by **c hack** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:49 pm

burstroc wrote:
c hack wrote:
burstroc wrote:c hack:
... i'm going to have to take out some points on this song for lack of originality.
Huh? How is it not original?
the verse contains the chord progression D F#m G A and the chorus is G A D, if i'm interpreting correctly. the structure is verse-chorus-verse-chorus...

Okay, you're just wack. Folsom Prison Blues is C F G, verse/chorus, and it's one of the best songs ever written.

Your Money Wasted · Post by **Your Money Wasted** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:50 pm

c hack wrote:
burstroc wrote:
c hack wrote: Huh? How is it not original?
the verse contains the chord progression D F#m G A and the chorus is G A D, if i'm interpreting correctly. the structure is verse-chorus-verse-chorus...
Okay, you're just wack. Folsom Prison Blues is C F G, verse/chorus, and it's one of the best songs ever written.

does that mean you should emulate it?

Your Money Wasted · Post by **Your Money Wasted** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:59 pm

also, congratulations on the win @eclectic spoons. it's well-deserved. god i love that song. it's so 1984! i can see big brother on the telescreen reciting that song to an auditorium of people!

i was one of the two who voted for ausgequetschte zitrone, though. it's too bad they didn't get more votes. i listened to that song and it felt like i was bathing in its frothy beauty. mmmm.

c hack · Post by **c hack** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:04 pm

burstroc wrote:
c hack wrote:
burstroc wrote: the verse contains the chord progression D F#m G A and the chorus is G A D, if i'm interpreting correctly. the structure is verse-chorus-verse-chorus...
Okay, you're just wack. Folsom Prison Blues is C F G, verse/chorus, and it's one of the best songs ever written.
does that mean you should emulate it?

Of course not. Why would you emulate songs you like?

wages · Post by **wages** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:02 pm

c hack wrote:
burstroc wrote:
c hack wrote: Okay, you're just wack. Folsom Prison Blues is C F G, verse/chorus, and it's one of the best songs ever written.
does that mean you should emulate it?
Of course not. Why would you emulate songs you like?

I just want to see how many quotes we can put within quotes

Kill Me Sarah · Post by **Kill Me Sarah** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:13 pm

Wages wrote:
c hack wrote:
burstroc wrote: does that mean you should emulate it?
Of course not. Why would you emulate songs you like?
I just want to see how many quotes we can put within quotes

That's just stupid.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:51 pm

kill_me_sarah wrote:
Wages wrote:
c hack wrote:
No it isn't, it's actually rather entertaining.

Of course not. Why would you emulate songs you like?
I just want to see how many quotes we can put within quotes
That's just stupid.