Nur Ein IX Round Four "The New Ugly"
- Ross
- Jump
- Posts: 2745
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:27 pm
- Instruments: Guitar, Vox, Bass, Tuned glasses, etc...
- Recording Method: Logic on a Macbook.
- Submitting as: Ross Durand
- Location: Orange CA
- Contact:
Nur Ein IX Round Four "The New Ugly"
Marimba, vibraphone, xylophone, other pitched percussion ok? Just not piano?
Last edited by Lunkhead on Wed May 11, 2016 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I don't like this song, but at least it's good." - veGetar Ianra Ge
http://www.rossdurandmusic.com
http://www.rossdurandmusic.com
- Caravan Ray
- bono
- Posts: 8665
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:51 pm
- Instruments: Penis
- Recording Method: Garageband
- Submitting as: Caravan Ray,G.O.R.T.E.C,Lyricburglar,The Thugs from the Scallop Industry
- Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
This has serious implications for anyone who can't come up with anything and wants to send in a microphone fart. That is a wind instrument and you will be disqualified. You will have to 'turkey slap' the microphone instead.
-
- Mean Street
- Posts: 520
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 12:59 am
- Instruments: Guitar, programming, various other stuff
- Recording Method: Audacity
- Submitting as: Nick Soma
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
That would be interesting, yeah. Even more so, what about a kalimba (African thumb piano)? It's not a percussion instrument in the strict sense because it's plucked (it's a lamellophone, actually) but similar in tone and function to a marimba or glockenspiel etc.Ross wrote:Marimba, vibraphone, xylophone, other pitched percussion ok? Just not piano?
Also, two more questions:
1. Is it OK to use a drum synth?
2. Is it OK to record percussion instruments and use them as samples? (i.e., no live percussion)
- Manhattan Glutton
- Ice Cream Man
- Posts: 1530
- Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:10 pm
- Instruments: Angst
- Recording Method: REAPER
- Location: Madison, WI
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
I read the spirit of the challenge as not leveraging pitched percussion, since you are in a sense making a fake piano by doing so, and piano was explicitly ruled out. But perhaps that's what the judges want - fake pianos and fake synths. Which, if I'm going to spend a few hours making a fake synth, why not just allow synths?
- Ross
- Jump
- Posts: 2745
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:27 pm
- Instruments: Guitar, Vox, Bass, Tuned glasses, etc...
- Recording Method: Logic on a Macbook.
- Submitting as: Ross Durand
- Location: Orange CA
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
I read the spirit that way, too, MG. Just looking for reinforcement to be sure we all understand it the same way.
"I don't like this song, but at least it's good." - veGetar Ianra Ge
http://www.rossdurandmusic.com
http://www.rossdurandmusic.com
- JonPorobil
- Beat It
- Posts: 5682
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:45 am
- Instruments: Piano, Guitar, Harmonica, Mandolin, Accordion, Bass, lots of VSTs
- Recording Method: Cubase 10.5
- Submitting as: Jon Eric, Jon Porobil, others
- Pronouns: He/Him
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
We actually discussed this amongst ourselves before settling on the challenge. We all agreed right off the bat that, although some classifications list the piano as a percussion instrument, we didn't want a full batch of singer-and-piano songs (not that I would have minded, but it wouldn't have been much of a challenge!).
At first I thought we just wanted to rule out using "pitched" percussion, but a majority of the judges argued in favor of struck idiophones such as the xylophone or marimba. (Plucked idiophones such as the "thumb piano" are not considered percussion for the purposes of this challenge). Therefore any instrument that produces sound by vibrating the entire instrument when struck is acceptable for the purposes of this challenge. Specifically, we intended to rule out instruments whose sound is produced by vibrating strings, even if those strings are struck, such as pianos and dulcimers. Obviously no guitars, basses, violins, horns, or any other type of instrument that isn't normally classified as "percussion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struck_idiophone - There's the Wikipedia article on Struck Idiophones (also called "Concussion Idiophones"). It also includes Shaken Idiophones and Scraped Idiophones, which are also acceptable for this challenge. Everything on this page should be acceptable for the challenge except for the toy piano.
If you don't have any real drums, I'm fine with you using loops, synthesizer (or softsynth) drums, or a drum machine - but no loading samples of other instruments into synth drums!
As awesome as Akira Jimbo is, his synth drum kit would likely NOT pass muster for this challenge, since he's got the drum heads mapped to MIDI instruments that sound like melodic synths and horns:
Conversely, sounds from your own mouth and body are permissible, so Eddiebangs' "Troublemaker" would be fine.
Hopefully that's clear enough.
At first I thought we just wanted to rule out using "pitched" percussion, but a majority of the judges argued in favor of struck idiophones such as the xylophone or marimba. (Plucked idiophones such as the "thumb piano" are not considered percussion for the purposes of this challenge). Therefore any instrument that produces sound by vibrating the entire instrument when struck is acceptable for the purposes of this challenge. Specifically, we intended to rule out instruments whose sound is produced by vibrating strings, even if those strings are struck, such as pianos and dulcimers. Obviously no guitars, basses, violins, horns, or any other type of instrument that isn't normally classified as "percussion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struck_idiophone - There's the Wikipedia article on Struck Idiophones (also called "Concussion Idiophones"). It also includes Shaken Idiophones and Scraped Idiophones, which are also acceptable for this challenge. Everything on this page should be acceptable for the challenge except for the toy piano.
If you don't have any real drums, I'm fine with you using loops, synthesizer (or softsynth) drums, or a drum machine - but no loading samples of other instruments into synth drums!
As awesome as Akira Jimbo is, his synth drum kit would likely NOT pass muster for this challenge, since he's got the drum heads mapped to MIDI instruments that sound like melodic synths and horns:
Conversely, sounds from your own mouth and body are permissible, so Eddiebangs' "Troublemaker" would be fine.
Hopefully that's clear enough.
Last edited by JonPorobil on Mon May 12, 2014 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Warren Zevon would be proud." -Reve Mosquito
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
- Manhattan Glutton
- Ice Cream Man
- Posts: 1530
- Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:10 pm
- Instruments: Angst
- Recording Method: REAPER
- Location: Madison, WI
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
Clear as mud.
So where does that leave synths (just plain ol sin waves), if the purpose is to only get rid of stringed instruments?
So where does that leave synths (just plain ol sin waves), if the purpose is to only get rid of stringed instruments?
- JonPorobil
- Beat It
- Posts: 5682
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:45 am
- Instruments: Piano, Guitar, Harmonica, Mandolin, Accordion, Bass, lots of VSTs
- Recording Method: Cubase 10.5
- Submitting as: Jon Eric, Jon Porobil, others
- Pronouns: He/Him
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
Manhattan Glutton wrote: So where does that leave synths (just plain ol sin waves)...
I wrote: If you don't have any real drums, I'm fine with you using loops, synthesizer (or softsynth) drums, or a drum machine - but no loading samples of other instruments into synth drums!
The purpose was not only to exclude stringed instruments, but rather all string instruments, horns, brass, woodwinds, reed instruments, and anything not normally classified as "percussion." Synthesizers (other than drum machines) are not typically considered "percussion," and therefore they should be excluded. You can, however, still use your synth clap sounds.Manhattan Glutton wrote: ...if the purpose is to only get rid of stringed instruments?
EDIT: made it a little less snarky.
Last edited by JonPorobil on Mon May 12, 2014 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Warren Zevon would be proud." -Reve Mosquito
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
- Geoff WreckdoM
- Mean Street
- Posts: 540
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:13 pm
- Instruments: Theremin
- Recording Method: Pabst Blue Ribbon
- Location: Awestin, TX
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
Thank you Jon! I would not have done as good a job explaining this. Not even close.
"perhaps the most offensive and disturbing image I've ever heard in a song" - Hans Gruber
- Lunkhead
- You're No Good
- Posts: 8175
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:14 pm
- Instruments: many
- Recording Method: cubase/mac/tascam4x4
- Submitting as: Berkeley Social Scene, Merisan, Tiny Robots
- Pronouns: he/him
- Location: Berkeley, CA
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
Most pedantic Ein ever?! Awesome!!!!
- Manhattan Glutton
- Ice Cream Man
- Posts: 1530
- Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:10 pm
- Instruments: Angst
- Recording Method: REAPER
- Location: Madison, WI
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
I feel like allowing pitched percussion just makes this too open to interpretation.
If I manipulate the shit out of a bass kick to sound like a sin wave, what's the point of having the restriction?
If I manipulate the shit out of a bass kick to sound like a sin wave, what's the point of having the restriction?
- JonPorobil
- Beat It
- Posts: 5682
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:45 am
- Instruments: Piano, Guitar, Harmonica, Mandolin, Accordion, Bass, lots of VSTs
- Recording Method: Cubase 10.5
- Submitting as: Jon Eric, Jon Porobil, others
- Pronouns: He/Him
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
If you're asking us to change the challenge to suit your level of understanding, the answer is absolutely not.Manhattan Glutton wrote:I feel like allowing pitched percussion just makes this too open to interpretation.
If I manipulate the shit out of a bass kick to sound like a sin wave, what's the point of having the restriction?
If you're asking us whether it would be permissible to alter a kick drum to the point that it sounds like a sine wave, I would say that the challenge is contingent upon the judges being able to tell that the instrument in question is a percussion instrument. At the risk of sounding pedantic or obvious, the judges need to be able to recognize the percussion instrument in order to know whether you succeeded in the challenge.
I also get that you might be posting just to complain, which is totally fine, but I'm trying to offer clarity and solutions where possible.
"Warren Zevon would be proud." -Reve Mosquito
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
- Rabid Garfunkel
- Jump
- Posts: 2468
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:43 pm
- Instruments: Absurdity
- Recording Method: iPhone, GarageBand & rando apps/toys
- Submitting as: OZYMANDIPUS, Rabid Garfunkel, Primitive Screwheads
- Pronouns: that guy
- Location: Portland, Oregon
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
This thread confused the hell out of me until I went back to Niv's post of the new title and saw it had been edited for... clarity.
In brief, we have to make a song by hittin' stuff (whether literally [hittin' stuff with our little hands, or with extensions of our little hands like sticks, mallets, hammers, severed limbs, &c.] or figuratively [synths and/or samples of someone hittin' stuff]), right?
Punky's Dilemma: say I treat an acoustic guitar like a cajon, banging on the different tonal spots of the body, and the strings can be heard in sympathetic vibration... is that a disqualifying usage? (See also: kicking a piano, yelling into the pickups of a plugged-in bass guitar).
Are explosives percussion or concussion instruments?
In brief, we have to make a song by hittin' stuff (whether literally [hittin' stuff with our little hands, or with extensions of our little hands like sticks, mallets, hammers, severed limbs, &c.] or figuratively [synths and/or samples of someone hittin' stuff]), right?
Punky's Dilemma: say I treat an acoustic guitar like a cajon, banging on the different tonal spots of the body, and the strings can be heard in sympathetic vibration... is that a disqualifying usage? (See also: kicking a piano, yelling into the pickups of a plugged-in bass guitar).
Are explosives percussion or concussion instruments?
- Manhattan Glutton
- Ice Cream Man
- Posts: 1530
- Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:10 pm
- Instruments: Angst
- Recording Method: REAPER
- Location: Madison, WI
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
This is Nur Ein, isn't it? Am I not supposed to be complaining?
Naw, it's good that you're explaining the judging to an unprecedented level. I just think the judges' intent with the text is a little... traditional. When you take a look at rap and modern electronic dance music, there's a very fine line between percussion and synth. For example, I would consider the high-pitch synths used in trap and moombah to be percussive in nature. So, I feel that allowing synth is equivalent to allowing xylophone.
And really, do you guys really want to listen to 20 songs of pitched snares and xylophones?
Naw, it's good that you're explaining the judging to an unprecedented level. I just think the judges' intent with the text is a little... traditional. When you take a look at rap and modern electronic dance music, there's a very fine line between percussion and synth. For example, I would consider the high-pitch synths used in trap and moombah to be percussive in nature. So, I feel that allowing synth is equivalent to allowing xylophone.
And really, do you guys really want to listen to 20 songs of pitched snares and xylophones?
- JonPorobil
- Beat It
- Posts: 5682
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:45 am
- Instruments: Piano, Guitar, Harmonica, Mandolin, Accordion, Bass, lots of VSTs
- Recording Method: Cubase 10.5
- Submitting as: Jon Eric, Jon Porobil, others
- Pronouns: He/Him
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
More or less, sure.Rabid Garfunkel wrote:This thread confused the hell out of me until I went back to Niv's post of the new title and saw it had been edited for... clarity.
In brief, we have to make a song by hittin' stuff (whether literally [hittin' stuff with our little hands, or with extensions of our little hands like sticks, mallets, hammers, severed limbs, &c.] or figuratively [synths and/or samples of someone hittin' stuff]), right?
It doesn't matter whether explosives are percussion or concussion; either way they're fine.Punky's Dilemma: say I treat an acoustic guitar like a cajon, banging on the different tonal spots of the body, and the strings can be heard in sympathetic vibration... is that a disqualifying usage? (See also: kicking a piano, yelling into the pickups of a plugged-in bass guitar).
Are explosives percussion or concussion instruments?
I don't have a straight answer about harmonics - we'll discuss it and get back to you ASAP.
"Warren Zevon would be proud." -Reve Mosquito
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
- Ross
- Jump
- Posts: 2745
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:27 pm
- Instruments: Guitar, Vox, Bass, Tuned glasses, etc...
- Recording Method: Logic on a Macbook.
- Submitting as: Ross Durand
- Location: Orange CA
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
I assume you're kidding about the explosions, they wouldn't fit the definition above, clearly a wind instrument it seems to me.
"I don't like this song, but at least it's good." - veGetar Ianra Ge
http://www.rossdurandmusic.com
http://www.rossdurandmusic.com
- glennny
- Jump
- Posts: 2217
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:39 am
- Instruments: Guitar, Bass, Mandolin, Dobro, Banjo, E-Bow, Glock
- Recording Method: Garageband
- Submitting as: Berkeley Social Scene
- Location: Castro Valley, California
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
The way I read it, a timpani bass line such as in "Human Behavior" by Bjork would be acceptable.
However the spirit seems to be non- pitched instruments. Drums , we'll toms and kick, do have pitches. You guys should hear the Prisoner ( Zipline drummer) let loose on his roto-toms, very melodic.
I'm hoping some of go serious Doo Wop.
I'm also assuming total a Capella meets the challenge as well?
Nur Ein!!!
However the spirit seems to be non- pitched instruments. Drums , we'll toms and kick, do have pitches. You guys should hear the Prisoner ( Zipline drummer) let loose on his roto-toms, very melodic.
I'm hoping some of go serious Doo Wop.
I'm also assuming total a Capella meets the challenge as well?
Nur Ein!!!
Phillipso, Older Brothers, Semolina Pilchards, Zipline , Thank Glennny for the Frisbee, The Odoriferous Valley, The Worldly Self Assurance, Berkeley Social Scene, Very Gentle Knives, Daddy Bop Swing Set, GUNS, The Kraken Lives, Cavedwellers
- JonPorobil
- Beat It
- Posts: 5682
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:45 am
- Instruments: Piano, Guitar, Harmonica, Mandolin, Accordion, Bass, lots of VSTs
- Recording Method: Cubase 10.5
- Submitting as: Jon Eric, Jon Porobil, others
- Pronouns: He/Him
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
Hmm, good point. Which section were the cannons in for the 1812 Overture?Ross wrote:I assume you're kidding about the explosions, they wouldn't fit the definition above, clearly a wind instrument it seems to me.
"Warren Zevon would be proud." -Reve Mosquito
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
- JonPorobil
- Beat It
- Posts: 5682
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:45 am
- Instruments: Piano, Guitar, Harmonica, Mandolin, Accordion, Bass, lots of VSTs
- Recording Method: Cubase 10.5
- Submitting as: Jon Eric, Jon Porobil, others
- Pronouns: He/Him
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
Yes, the timpani should be fine. I mean, we didn't discuss it as a group, but it's a big ol' drum, so I can't think of a basis for excluding it.glennny wrote:The way I read it, a timpani bass line such as in "Human Behavior" by Bjork would be acceptable.
However the spirit seems to be non- pitched instruments. Drums , we'll toms and kick, do have pitches. You guys should hear the Prisoner ( Zipline drummer) let loose on his roto-toms, very melodic.
I wouldn't dock anyone for doing this, though c'mon, you could at least throw some finger snaps in there or something, right?glennny wrote: I'm also assuming total a Capella meets the challenge as well?
"Warren Zevon would be proud." -Reve Mosquito
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
Stages, an album of about dealing with loss, anxiety, and grieving a difficult year, now available on Bandcamp and all streaming platforms! https://jonporobil.bandcamp.com/album/stages
- Ross
- Jump
- Posts: 2745
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:27 pm
- Instruments: Guitar, Vox, Bass, Tuned glasses, etc...
- Recording Method: Logic on a Macbook.
- Submitting as: Ross Durand
- Location: Orange CA
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
Glennny, i disagree with you about the spirit seeming to be non -pitched. Look again at this quote from JonEric...
At this point, I sort of figure none of this will apply to me anyway.Generic wrote: At first I thought we just wanted to rule out using "pitched" percussion, but a majority of the judges argued in favor of struck idiophones such as the xylophone or marimba.
"I don't like this song, but at least it's good." - veGetar Ianra Ge
http://www.rossdurandmusic.com
http://www.rossdurandmusic.com
- Ross
- Jump
- Posts: 2745
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:27 pm
- Instruments: Guitar, Vox, Bass, Tuned glasses, etc...
- Recording Method: Logic on a Macbook.
- Submitting as: Ross Durand
- Location: Orange CA
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
Just saying, the sound doesn't come from striking the cannonball. Now if you want to play Anvil, i'm totally with you on that!Generic wrote:Hmm, good point. Which section were the cannons in for the 1812 Overture?Ross wrote:I assume you're kidding about the explosions, they wouldn't fit the definition above, clearly a wind instrument it seems to me.
"I don't like this song, but at least it's good." - veGetar Ianra Ge
http://www.rossdurandmusic.com
http://www.rossdurandmusic.com
- adamadamant
- Push Comes to Shove
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:54 am
- Instruments: None
- Recording Method: Answer phone messages
- Pronouns: he/him
- Location: Glasgow, UK
- Contact:
Re: Nur Ein! IX Round 4
I really dig this title and challenge. Fingers crossed for a miracle to get me through round 3.