Is band drama inevitable?

[Sober]

So I've been playing somewhat regularly with this band E Flat Johnny for about a year. Good players, good guys. I've become really close friends with them, especially the singer. I'm the first groomsman behind his best man, and I'm supposed to move in with him tomorrow.

But lately, everyone's been busy and we've gotten really lazy with booking. We only have one planned this month. No individual's fault, as booking has been agreed as a group effort.

A few weeks ago, I started playing with the Josh Goode Band. A little cheesy, but the players are pretty good, they're good guys, and they really have their shit together. They have a full staff complete with roadies, booking managers, merch people, marketing, etc. About 20 people on the payroll for the bigger shows.

They're the guys I'm going to Korea with, they're doing a Mediterranean tour this summer, all this shit.

Point is, the singer in my first band is completely jealous, though he won't admit it, and has even pulled me aside to tell me he's happy I'm doing stuff with them, etc. But tonight I went way out of my way to meet them (EbJ) up after a gig with Josh Goode for drinks, and they wouldn't even talk to me or look at me. Not one word for the 30 minutes I was there.

So I've decided I probably won't move in with this guy, and that alone will put my place in his wedding and this band in jeopardy.

I guess my question is: Does it have to be this way? Are musicians everywhere going to be like women? Two weeks ago this guy was my best fucking friend in the world, and now he won't even speak to me? Because I'm doing well with another band?

Forgive the somewhat alcohol-induced post, but this shit is tearing me apart. I love playing with those guys, and I don't see any good reason for this to go down this way.

Sorry for the length. Berate away.

[furrypedro]

That's really bizarre, and yet as Morrissey once famously pointed out, we hate it when our friends become successful. But for it to get to the point where they hang out with you and make a point of not speaking to you, I find that pathetic.

In answer to the question though, I don't think band drama is inevitable, although I do think it is affected by the level of success you desire.

Carpetburn is a case of note recently, we lost our bass player, Barry. Barry has always been the least musical out of all of us but very much into the 'scene' side of things and liked to view our band alongside other bands he'd read about in NME and suchlike.

Edit: I should also point out that Barry and I started the band together when we were 16, so y'know, we go way back. It is a very strange thing for me to imagine a Carpetburn without him.

About 4 months ago he was invited on tour with another band Underground Heroesas a tour manager(who we had previously beaten in a BOTB in March 2006 I might add ), and this meant that he would miss a number of local Carpetburn gigs. We told him we'd still try to play those gigs, either as a 3-piece, with another bassist, or with the basslines programmed into my sampler. At the same time we mulled the situation over with our friends as idle conversation and a handful of them offered their services to fill in while Barry was gone, one in particular, a guy who managed the local pub/venue/club called Matt seemed like an attractive and viable option. Abridging the story slightly, Matt is a far superior bassist to Barry, considerably more motivated, and reliable to the point where it seems silly to consider him a stand in, so it all gelled quite quickly and now we're up and rocking again.

The funny thing about this is that I think I get on with Barry far better these days than when he played with us, probably cos I don't have to hassle him to learn his god-damn lines or practice ever. Also, as he's constantly making contacts out on the road he has more opportunity to help us than he did before, so he's more like a manager/agent now, which suits him far better as he doesn't have to play an instrument any more (this I find odd but we are all different).

As far as replacing band members goes, I've not heard a less acrimonious story, I'm rather pleased it happened to us. I think one thing that helped was that we were always totally open about it, I'd always tell Barry we were going to practice with another bassist and ask if he was cool with it, even though it was his choice to not be around at the time. It also helped that Matt is not only very talented but strangely subservient, I sometimes feel like I'm taking advantage of him but he's never told me he can't do something for me whenever I've asked which is something I could get used to very quickly. I think mainly, unlike Barry, he relishes the chance to play a new song, which fits in with my personal ambitions very nicely, where Barry would whinge like a motherfucker before sitting down to learn something.

[deshead]

So I've decided I probably won't move in with this guy

You may not have given all the details, but based on what you provided, this seems extreme. And somewhat petty.

You don't know the reason they didn't talk to you last night. Unless one of them came right out and told you "we're jealous of your success," your conclusions here are really just assumptions. I say quit being such a teenage girl, and ask him point-blank why they ignored you.

Otherwise, you're basically doing the same shit you've accused him of.

Does it have to be this way?

Absolutely not.

Even if they are jealous of your success, that's indicative of them as people, not as musicians. And that's a big "if" anyway. It's far more likely their behaviour stems from something else that you're not aware of.

You're close to the guy. Just ask him.

[jack]

dr. des dispensing the sound wisdom

that said, to answer the rhetorical question.....hell yes. bands and drama go together like stink on shit.

look at the drama that goes on here. musicians are nothing if not passionate about one thing - their music. and what others think. otherwise, we wouldn't be putting it out there.

[WeaselSlayer]

I've only had drama in bands where the music didn't come first. My first instinct when I come across drama is to say fuck it and move on with people that just want to play. And it hasn't failed me so far.

[jb]

Des is right. Just ask the guy. But don't be confrontational, approach him as if you think you've offended him but you're not sure and you need to ask to make sure "we good?" and have him go "yeah, we good."

Saying "hey, what the fuck was the deal last night?" isn't going to have a positive result.

And yeah, seems like most bands have personal issues sooner or later. They either get over them or they don't, neither seems to indicate whether the band breaks up.

[Leaf]

Bands are like marriages; most partners can't handle it when you're fucking someone else.

Seems crass? Seem vulgar? Well, it's true. Because, they start to feel like the love they had is being spent elsewhere.

Jack said it in a way that I am now never going to forget, because it pretty much sums up the truth:

Musicians are passionate about what other people think.

Funny, I always knew I was that way, but I never stepped back and realized that this is almost a universal truth. Feel free to pretend you think otherwise, but no one who would post here would stand a chance!

I think for me, it is easy to not notice this, because I carry such guilt about caring about what other people think, usually because a far more selfish person will reinforce the idea that one shouldn't care what other people think.

Take Jack's idea now, and look beyond it, and what I think of is... so, how do they deal with that intense focus on other's opinions, especially band mates??

Maybe you don't have to ask them what's wrong at all. Maybe you need to tell them the same thing you'd tell "women" (Which, by the way, in my opinion sober, is a DUMB thing to type. Comparing musicians to women as if their behavior is inferior gives me a clue as to what they might ACTUALLY be pissed at.)

Stop thinking about THEM. About what they did wrong. So they ignored you. You're writing like this happened as a direct result of your actions... and this is probably half true. The problem you seem to be having is that you haven't figured out the ACTUAL things you've been responsible for in the relationship that's pissin them off. It's not your success. That's an excuse to change. Do you want to relate to them or not? Obviously not. You weren't ready to wait for them to get their shit together... and they need to realize that when you make a commitment to a relationship, like marriage, that it will affect other relationships. So, it sounds like you started the process to move on, and the can't handle that, and you cant' handle them being hurt that you'd leave them behind.

Seems simple. Go fix it by being honest. "yes, I"m putting my primary musical focus elsewhere, because that is the type of lifestyle I want, total music. "


I have a good friend who has a record deal (band is called "mother mother" and is making videos and touring... and we recently had a nasty email exchange because I assumed he wasn't emailing me back due to his success... I thought he had too many people to relate to. Funny thing is, as we emailed, he kept getting pissed off when I would try to use his success as an excuse for his lack of communication. It took a few emails for me to realize... I WAS jealous. Not in a nasty way, but enough of a way for him to feel uncomfortable. Worse, he feels GUILTY! (Not that he admitted it,but it was clear. So, we never had a formal tally of where the fault and responsibility lay, and I know he still thinks ill of me in some minor ways, as I do him... (which is normal... who thinks anyone is a total hero of perfection anyway) and ... we're good.
\
So be honest with yourself. For example, you can lay out some pretty harsh asshole humour on the boards. I find it amusing, and can relate to it actually. But, hypothetically, if you are that way in real life, move your focus to another band...keep on with that style that requires a LOT of trust from the listener to know you're just beening a knob for fun... wow. Recipe for disaster...


Big assumptions in my post. Bottom line. They care about you to the point that they couldn't talk to you. Be honest with yourself, be honest with them, and you'll all be fine. Unless they aren't honest, then they'll hate you forever and throw darts at your 8x10 glossy.


EDIT: Just talked this over with my wife, here's a succinct thought:

They're made at you for abandoning them , not success. The success just rubs it in deeper.

I'd better hit submit now.

[roymond]

Are musicians everywhere going to be like women?

Women are awesome. What's so bad about jealousy? It's a natural human emotion. What they need is reassurance. Like JB said, approach him like you're afraid you've insulted him, and set things straight. Take the high road. If they don't meet you there then maybe you're on different planes. If you can recognize this then you're getting somewhere. If you can't, then you're as bad off as you think they are.

[Reist]

I have huge problems with the majority of my bandmates when we talk about the music we like - they are the kind of people who hate 'mainstream' music (in general they think every band that isn't metal is mainstream), and a few of them love punk, which I don't really like. Our lyrics are definitely not my favorite, but I love the music we make, and I usually get along with my bandmates - some sacrifices must be made - even selfish interests must be put aside - for a band/friendship to stay together.

[anti-m]

Maybe you need to tell them the same thing you'd tell "women" (Which, by the way, in my opinion sober, is a DUMB thing to type. Comparing musicians to women as if their behavior is inferior gives me a clue as to what they might ACTUALLY be pissed at.)

Thanks for calling BS on that, Leaf. (And Roymond!) That particular line really pissed me off.

[Bjam]

Maybe you need to tell them the same thing you'd tell "women" (Which, by the way, in my opinion sober, is a DUMB thing to type. Comparing musicians to women as if their behavior is inferior gives me a clue as to what they might ACTUALLY be pissed at.)

Thanks for calling BS on that, Leaf. (And Roymond!) That particular line really pissed me off.

Gotta throw in a little "amen" there.

Also, yeah, drama + band = well, duh. And I don't quite understand how you're moving in with him if he's about to get married. Just do what you find most important. Do you want to move things forward with your friends or your music? You can't pick both, most times.

[Sober]

Derek has cleaned out my Pokerstars account. From the transaction record, he did it at 3am - right when he got home from the bar. The money is technically his, because of the staking arrangement we had, but it's still fucked up, seeing as he doesn't even play on pokerstars.

Something certainly is up, and I'll be talking to him within the hour.

[thehipcola]

Awesome life, dude! You work(ed?) at a music store, you've done live sound, you're a great musician, you're hooked into some bands that are for various reasons doing it for you, and one is bringing you around the world for a spell....AND to top it all off, you gamble with someone else's money. (which I'm too lazy to check, belongs to someone in the band that's giving you the heebies....)

I'm not sure what the complaint is....keep on keeping on brother! At the very LEAST...you've got a good song or two's worth of muse-food out of these tales.

[mkilly]

I feel kind of awful that I didn't immediately find fault with comparing their behavior to that of a generic woman's. That's dreadfully misogynistic.

[jack]

I feel kind of awful that I didn't immediately compare their behavior to that of a generic woman's. That's such a dude thing. man law and all.

[Rabid Garfunkel]

Screw it. Live the dream, take your lumps, cut your losses, enjoy the world whilst doing what you want. Life's too fragile and ephemeral when you're chasing that elusive joy, yo.
/2¢

[ken]

I'd just like to chime in that this is one of the difficult parts of being talented and ambitious. I see a mix of it with people I play with. For the most part, now, everyone understands I have a lot of stuff going on. My band mates are usually very supportive of the different projects I am involved in. But these days, I am very upfront about it. Everyone knows where my ambitions lie and how I operate.

Ken

[Henrietta]

I'm in two little locals bands right now, and even at that level *both* lead singers have a problem with me being in a 2nd band. It's like Leaf says about your guy being jealous cuz you're seeing other people. It's hard to make insecure people happy. Good luck with this one, Sober!

[jimtyrrell]

I work with two bands pretty regularly, and sit in with a few others. I play a lot of solo shows, too. I just try to stay as busy as I can.

Two of the guys in the band with whom I have the most work are in another band as well. I don't think any of us have any feelings of jealousy about this.

The difference may be that all these bands are just playing covers. None of these groups actually have what you'd call artistic aspirations, or even hopes of making it big*. We're just serving our local market, and if we get bigger, it probably doesn't mean playing better venues (or getting paid more), but instead maybe playing out in a wider area. Which isn't exactly a step up, since the expenses increase, but the pay doesn't.

It could also be that we're all older than dirt, too. And none of us are trying to make a full-time go at it.

*Well, one of the bands is actually sort of trying to do that, but in practice, we're just playing mostly cover tunes, since that gets the work around here. Even at my solo shows, most of what I play comes from the request list I hand out to the audience, which means Brown Eyed Girl three times a night. {shrug} I do a couple originals a night though, usually. I Know My Rights goes over well.

[NatchDan]

It's a simple fact that no matter how well you get on, if you spend a lot of time in enforced closeness you will begin to grate on each other. It sounds like it was a straw-that-broke-the-back thing,

[Caravan Ray]

You and your mates sound like a pack of wankers having a hissy fit. You should all pull your heads in and get over it.

[himynameisntmark]

I'm not in a band but my best friend is and almost all I hear about her band these days is how they aren't getting along. I think the biggest thing besides the music when you're in a band is getting along with your bandmates. It doesn't matter if you can make great music together if you fought with each other every step of the way.