Collab Tips?

miss_jenny · Post by **miss_jenny** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:01 am

what is the best/easiest way to collab on a recording? do you send off the unmastered software file containing the separate tracks, or do you send a single mastered MP3 of your tracks that will get pasted into someone else's software program as a single track? Or.... ????

Any other "how-to collaborate across the country" tips for noobs are also appreciated.

ken · Post by **ken** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:48 am

I like to send/get separate tracks whenever possible. My biggest pet peeve is when people send me a stereo track for a mono instrument. My other peeve is when people send me a track to play along to, and it is a mix of what they have, usually mixed with the vocals really loud. It is hard to play along to the vocals, when what I really want to hear is the bass or the rhythm guitar.

I tend to upload my tracks to my webspace on songhole (thanks spud!) sometimes as mp3s, and sometimes as wav files. It depends. The trick is to always export your tracks from the same point so they line up. Pick a zero point and stick to it.

Ken

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:09 am

i've also sent entire acid .zip projects, but that requires that all participants can use acid, or whatever your program of choice is.
probably the safest bet is entire-song length single track WAVs. if you have the space for them, that is

-bill

jack · Post by **jack** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:28 am

hey jennifer, if you want some insight into doing these, you can check this out. it gives you an idea of what's involved when 5 people collaborate.

http://bloodyhams.blogspot.com/

obviously one or 2 is much easier. johnny cashpoint and i have done a number of songs together and you probably would be hard pressed to find 2 people more farther apart geographically. and he's a pleasure to work with.

i agree with ken on the full length seperate tracks for simplicity and synchronization, but it's certainly not a deal breaker. it just depends who is mixing. some folks will end up slicing and dicing the tracks anyways. but it does make things much easier.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:41 am

I am not as experienced as some others here, but it depends on what you are doing, and what the other person is recording.

I've found that creating a full mix of your "idea" and then a custom mix for the recording session - both as MP3s - can work quite well and the files are small. Then the other person records their track(s) and sends back each as an uncompressed WAV (stereo or mono as appropriate).

Using Dropload means you don't have to host them at all, with email notification keeping everyone in the loop. It's free. Obviously more complex collaborations require more complex solutions.

Post by jb » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:55 am

It depends on the collab. If I'm just adding stuff, like a 'cello part, then I want a rough mix of the song in mp3 format.

If it's a 50/50 collab where we share songwriting and production duties, then we trade only once or twice, and we compress the entire session using RAR format and upload it to my server. This only works if everyone has broadband, but if they do, it's not really much hassle at all imo.

j

jack · Post by **jack** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:59 am

but one thing that's fairly important (and may have been said) is that if you send someone a mix to record to, it should have a consistent bpm if possible. don't send someone a mix to use as a click track and then change it after they've started recording to it.

j$ · Post by j$ » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:46 am

jack wrote:johnny cashpoint and i have done a number of songs together and you probably would be hard pressed to find 2 people more farther apart geographically. and he's a pleasure to work with.

I concur!

I think the questions you should decide first up are -

a) Who's mixing this together?
b) What BPM is it?

After that you can work around whatever sequencer / mixing software you're going to be using. If you have broadband / storage space go for the WAV / AIF option. If not you can work without losing too much sound quality at 192kps and above.

Quite a few people I have worked in collaboration just want to add their stuff on top of an almost finished song (chords / words / general feel) - that makes perfect sense and is totally fine - so you need to have something near what you want before you send demos. I do believe that in collaborations, one person tends to lead the way song-wise - it's not like a rehearsal where you can truly 'jam' until you find something good. Not enough time for too many demo mp3s to fly back and forth.

Only other tip - keep people in the loop. Let them know how it's going / play them demos when and if you can. Without that, people tend to get grumpy / lose interest in the project.

j$

j$ · Post by j$ » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:50 am

Oh my other tip - be flexible - if your collaborator hates your spoons solo be ready to defend it within an inch of your life, or ditch it a a second's notice ...

(From 'Johnny Cashpoint's Big Book of Egg Sucking for Grandmas')

ken · Post by **ken** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:51 am

j$ wrote:Only other tip - keep people in the loop. Let them know how it's going / play them demos when and if you can. Without that, people tend to get grumpy / lose interest in the project.

j$

Good point. Upload a quick mix as a reference. Upload tracks as you finish them instead of waiting to do them all first. Upload a quick version of something you are going to put more time into later.

Ken

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:54 am

sometimes...it's cool to hear something you didn't expect...redcar was always good for a mind warp...one person starts an idea...then it morphs into something else entirely... I liked that... <rebelled against it!> but liked it...you get stuff you'd never come up with on your own... my #2 reason to collab (#1... play music with others of course!!)

If you have ftp access...that works awesome for flippin tracks cause multiple people can access the same stuff...but a log (or blog) like jack suggested is a MUST for more than two people or it get's a little toecrunching at times...

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:58 am

jack wrote:]johnny cashpoint and i have done a number of songs together and you probably would be hard pressed to find 2 people more farther apart geographically. and he's a pleasure to work with.

That's the cool thing - he could be next door for all it matters, but your schedules just don't line up. The fact that he's 6 thousand miles away is pretty much irrelevant. Now, being a pleasure to work with is a whole nother thread.

jack · Post by **jack** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:03 am

roymond wrote:
jack wrote:]johnny cashpoint and i have done a number of songs together and you probably would be hard pressed to find 2 people more farther apart geographically. and he's a pleasure to work with.
That's the cool thing - he could be next door for all it matters, but your schedules just don't line up. The fact that he's 6 thousand miles away is pretty much irrelevant. Now, being a pleasure to work with is a whole nother thread.

in some cases, it works to our benefit that there is a 9 hour time difference between us. i know that on at least one molsen twins track, it allowed us more time to finish the tune.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:11 am

jack wrote:in some cases, it works to our benefit that there is a 9 hour time difference between us. i know that on at least one molsen twins track, it allowed us more time to finish the tune.

yeah, that's why we have an Indian office. Well...one reason. Actually, no, but it works out the same.

toddlans · Post by **toddlans** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:04 pm

whats the deal with songhole? what exactly is it? i searched for it, but its offline or something at the moment.

ken · Post by **ken** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:17 pm

toddlans wrote:whats the deal with songhole? what exactly is it? i searched for it, but its offline or something at the moment.

Songhole was started by our good friend Blue Lang. As far as I understand it is a bunch of server space he gave out to songfighters for their websites/hosting songs/etc. Spud now holds the keys.

Ken

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:01 am

Broadband internet is a big plus. I did collabs with Leaf, TVIYH, 8LO and J$ when I was using dial-up and the time it took me to up/download mp3's made the whole thing almost unworkable.

(BTW: I have broadband now - how's your schedule Leaf? Caravan Leaf may be due for another outing soon)

obscurity · Post by **obscurity** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:45 am

For me, the single most important tip I can give to collaborators: Keep to your commitments. Don't, like, promise to record some vocals in the next week or so, and then still not have them done a year later. That can be really annoying.

Leaf · Post by **Leaf** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:39 pm

Caravan Ray wrote:Broadband internet is a big plus. I did collabs with Leaf, TVIYH, 8LO and J$ when I was using dial-up and the time it took me to up/download mp3's made the whole thing almost unworkable.

(BTW: I have broadband now - how's your schedule Leaf? Caravan Leaf may be due for another outing soon)

I was thinking that too man! Summer is the time... although this week SUCKED for collabs...so I'm thinking I got one in the works .... depending if the Hip Cola picks up his messages or not... but YEAH.

Adam! · Post by **Adam!** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:51 pm

Free Jamming Software.

Neat.

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:26 am

did you try it? i have been looking forward to checking it out. how well does it work?
-bill