Are you SongFighting to win?

Post by **Lunkhead** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:20 am

Some of us want to compete with each other to be the most liked/voted for in a fight. Some of us want to send our songs in for people to listen to, regardless of whether or not people like them or vote for them.

Bjam · Post by **Bjam** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:21 am

It's a perk I would guess.

Egg · Post by **Egg** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:27 am

I am trying to do many things, but the intent to win is practically always there. Even if I know at the beginning of each week that the chances are excessively against a conventional Egg entry winning a songfight, I go about making the coolest song I possibly can. Sometimes (like when I was homeless), I didn't even have the means to listen to the other songs or post on the boards. That means I can't honestly say I'm always doing it for the sense of community.

I feel like there's a point where I commit myself to a fight and if I don't submit, it's because I epicly backed out. And that <a href="http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.p ... happens</a>. But if I back out of a personal commitment to compete on a more regular basis, I end up feeling crappy. So I think I commit to a fight on a personal level and then I try to do something interesting and I hit send on the email even if I know it will get zero to six votes out of 100. And believe it or not, I sometimes hit send thinking "There's a chance!"

fodroy · Post by **fodroy** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:45 am

I voted no. In the beginning I fought to win, and maybe for a year or so after that. But then I realized that I never had a chance of winning. I'd rather not get my hopes up. If I ever win a songfight I'll probably hang up my boots and call it a day. I guess that means that everyone who doesn't like my music should vote for in the next fight I enter.

I also think that art is a dumb competition. It's too subjective to be a competition. I'm mostly here because it's fun and whatnot. It's a good place to get feedback and also vote in silly polls.

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:18 am

Yes - must win!

That's why Songfight is great - it makes songwriting a sport.

I spent the last 20 years not writing songs - even though I wanted to - just becasue I had no motivation to get started. Since Songfight! presented songwriting to me as a competition - I've now written roughly 50 songs in the last 2 years.

The fact that I've never won is irrelevant - it doesn't bother me in the slightest. But every single song I've done has been written and entered because I want it to win. If I wasn't trying to win - I wouldn't do it. Winning isn't really a goal that I aspire to - but trying to win is the whole reason I do it (I don't know if that makes sense to others - maybe it's an Australian/sport obsessive thing, )

(actually, I think the best songs I've done have been in Nur Ein and Song Skirmishes - where the whole 'songwriting as sport' feel was even more intense)

Paco Del Stinko · Post by **Paco Del Stinko** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:28 am

I try to do the best that I can in the hopes of winning, although I've yet to help my own cause by voting for myself. ( That'll probably be the only vote I announce but I've really got to feel that it's the best entry that week and, well...) Quietly competetive, I'm more on the it's how you play the game side.

For many years I've been turning out quantity with some quality mixed in there. I hope that my Songfight entries lean more to the quality side, as I spend more time on them than most others, though in time I hope to have a mixture of both here. I am definitely glad that people listen to the songs and like even just a part of it. I love the reviews both good and bad. A win would be great, but I don't know if I'd like "spotlight" either.

I would have loved to have tried my hand at Nur Ein though.

king_arthur · Post by **king_arthur** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:33 am

Yes, I actually do want to win, despite the fact that I continue doing "not winning" stuff song after song (the drum machine, etc.).

However, despite the fact that I want to "win" at songfight, I am still really disappointed with the way "Prayer for Pancakes" was handled (everybody wins). I almost started a poll a couple days ago to see if there was anybody else who thought P4P should be moved to the "sidefights" archive, but decided that would be a little too whiny. But, y'know, since the subject came up...

I will vote for myself if I have listened to all the songs in the fight in time to vote, but that hasn't happened in... a while. I've actually gotten to where it's very hard for me to listen to a fight I have a song in...

Charles (KA)

furrypedro · Post by **furrypedro** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:38 am

"It's not the winning
It's the taking part
.....weeell it's not the taking part,
it's the sense of futile despair."

Eric Y. · Post by **Eric Y.** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:44 am

fodroy wrote:silly polls.

that's the only reason i'm here. i don't care about competitiveness.

jimtyrrell · Post by **jimtyrrell** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:39 am

When I fight, I fight to win.

roymond · Post by **roymond** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:46 am

I submit stuff I personally feel represents my best efforts and on numerous occassions I went in feeling very confident, only to be disappointed by the misguided votes of the majority.

Post by jb » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:58 am

There are three ways to fight.

1. Make the song you want to make, make it as good as you can, and go in with your fists up. This often results in crushing disappointment, but you have the satisfaction of crafting the song you wanted to craft. And on rare occassions you get to exult in the fact that what YOU thought was awesome everybody ELSE thought was at least better than the rest of the entries.

2. Make a song that panders to the likes of the audience. Use standard pop hooks, all-inclusive vague lyrics, use standard full-band instrumentation, and shiny pop production. You have a great chance of winning, but you won't have the song you'd have made if you were trying to satisfy yourself. It is a fun exercise though.

3. Make a song that amuses you for the ten minutes you spend recording it, then tell all your friends about the fight. You'll get the satisfaction of winning, sort of, but there's no art in it and you have to live with the knowledge that you suck.

Me, I do #1 every time. I'm in it to win, with the best song I can make with the resources I have at the moment. I want to BEAT YOUR SONG. This is SONG FIGHT, not Song Love. God damned hippies.

HeuristicsInc · Post by **HeuristicsInc** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:49 pm

Yup, trying to win, but I'd be darn surprised if I did

-bill

Niveous · Post by **Niveous** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:48 pm

I may sit there at the bottom of the rankings all the time but still, i'm in it to win. It's Song Fight. If I just wanted my song to be listened to and commented on, we have a thread for that. Hell, there's a convenient (but lately neglected) website for it called somesongs.

Ever hear someone say "I'm playing to lose"? "I'm playing to tie"? No. That's because there's only one way to play and that's playing to win. You can have fun and enjoy the experience but if you're in a competition, why wouldn't you play to win?

rone rivendale · Post by **rone rivendale** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:28 pm

The way I see it, if you are going to take the time to do something you should do it all the way.

If you aren't trying to win, you shouldn't even be participating. It would be like going into a marathon and running 2 miles and then going home.

fodroy · Post by **fodroy** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:36 pm

Except there are people who run marathons for fun, and they don't come anywhere close to winning. They just want to say that they finished the marathon. And then there are the Ethiopian guys who can run for extremely long distances without stopping, who basically do it to win - and they win it every time. So it's hard to be in it to win it in a marathon. I guess Frontalot is our Ethiopian, but, thankfully, he doesn't fight that often.

I hate to sound like a whiner, because I don't think this is whining. It's probably more along the lines of old-fashioned idealism, but what ever happened to doing something for the pure joy of doing it?

Post by **Spud** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:35 am

king_arthur wrote:Yes, I actually do want to win, despite the fact that I continue doing "not winning" stuff song after song (the drum machine, etc.).

However, despite the fact that I want to "win" at songfight, I am still really disappointed with the way "Prayer for Pancakes" was handled (everybody wins). I almost started a poll a couple days ago to see if there was anybody else who thought P4P should be moved to the "sidefights" archive, but decided that would be a little too whiny. But, y'know, since the subject came up...

I will vote for myself if I have listened to all the songs in the fight in time to vote, but that hasn't happened in... a while. I've actually gotten to where it's very hard for me to listen to a fight I have a song in...

Charles (KA)

Sorry you felt that way about the Prayer, Art. I guess we gave everybody a win because the whole thing was so preposterous. Just to get an entry in in the 20 minutes that was available was so appreciated by me and JB that we thought that everyone who cleared the bar was a winner.

You are right that it wasn't a true fight, in that there wasn't any voting, so maybe sidefights would be a better place to catalog it. If any other participants have any thoughts on this, I am listening.

If you want to have a vote, you will have to wait for JB and me to finish recording our entry, since they cut us off on the air before we really got it going...

SPUD

j$ · Post by j$ » Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:05 am

Personally, I am very happy to have a false win upping my numbers

j$

Caravan Ray · Post by **Caravan Ray** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:15 am

My only issue with the Pancake Incident was that it put me out of the running for the King Arthur Award - but it did cease King Arthur's reign of terror as well. After some counselling, I've come to terms with the whole thing now. I've moved on.

king_arthur · Post by **king_arthur** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:47 am

Okay, I guess I can get some counseling and move on, too. At least I still have an award named after me

Life was just kinda piling up on me the other day and I needed to vent. Thanks to those who tossed a little mindless praise my way - I'm doing better now.

Charles (KA)

boltoph · Post by **boltoph** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:58 am

jb wrote:1. Make the song you want to make, make it as good as you can, and go in with your fists up. This often results in crushing disappointment, but you have the satisfaction of crafting the song you wanted to craft. And on rare occassions you get to exult in the fact that what YOU thought was awesome everybody ELSE thought was at least better than the rest of the entries.

2. Make a song that panders to the likes of the audience. Use standard pop hooks, all-inclusive vague lyrics, use standard full-band instrumentation, and shiny pop production. You have a great chance of winning, but you won't have the song you'd have made if you were trying to satisfy yourself. It is a fun exercise though.

For some people, #2 EQUALS #1. Myself included, because that's the kind of music I like.

I guess I'm my own audience, because the way I see it:

"standard pop hooks" = well developed, memorable vocal melody
"all-inclusive vague lyrics" = hidden meaning and something to think about, interpret, analyze. Something to get the brain working, not totally obvious meaning.
"full-band instrumentation" = a challenge to achieve in a one-man + computer setting
"shiny pop production" = work hard on your mix and do research to learn about how to manipulate the properties of sound to please the human ear

And even those of you that prefer the more "avant garde" non-commercial approach to music: the songs that will gain mass appeal will be the ones that bend more in the direction of commercial music, or as JB said, "panders to the likes of the audience".

Consider your audience.

erik · Post by **erik** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:56 pm

Many songs that become engrained in the public consciousness do so because they make an attempt to sound similar to artists which have already proven to be popular. Less songs will becomes engrained in the public consciousness that take chances and risks and make music that sounds different from what has been proven to be likable.

I mean, Creed has probably sold more records than the Pixies, but ten seconds after Creed broke up people stopped caring, and like 10 years after the Pixies broke up, people still wanted to hear their music.

Consider your audience. They deserve better than more music that sounds the same as other music they already know about.

Are you SongFighting to win?

Are you trying to win when you enter SongFight?

Are you SongFighting to win?